Trans remembrance flags and SNP renews support for LGBTYS

There’s some really interesting discussion up thread @meloncotton about what stats are available and why those stats are problematic. I’d start by reading that.

Particularly on an international scale (and we’re talking about an international day of remembrance), it’s not something you’re going to be able to find reliable stats for.

As I’ve said a huge number of times it’s not a bloody competition about who is ‘more murdered’. That’s just a bit sick @Ereshkigalangcleg .

Sorry meant to quote you @ElleWoods15

Isn’t that about trying to marginalise trans people?

No, it's about not creating a false narrative that they are murdered more than other people.

Have you read the stats that show that trans people are NOT at more risk of murder that non-trans people? What do you think about that?

I’ve been called anti semitic by a PP for suggesting that the Nazis targeted people for being trans. If we write that part out of history, gloss over it and pretend it didn’t happen, isn’t that marginalising trans people?

Do you have evidence of any Nazi trans victims who were not Jewish or gay? We know many Nazi officers were openly trans so you need to have evidence to back up such statements.

Well, @Ereshkigalangcleg take this thread as an example (and tbh it’s a pretty mild one). This whole thread is about some posters feel that the SNP should not fly a flag to commemorate Trans Day of Remembrance (even though it doesn’t actually affect those posters if the SNP does indeed fly that flag). Isn’t that about trying to marginalise trans people? (And I repeat before I’m asked to justify why the SNP flies flags that I don’t have a view on whether or not they should. Not least because they are not my government.)

I’ve been called anti semitic by a PP for suggesting that the Nazis targeted people for being trans. If we write that part out of history, gloss over it and pretend it didn’t happen, isn’t that marginalising trans people?

But seriously, this little corner of the internet is nothing compared to the what trans people face IRL, something that’s only going to get worse with a new Trump administration.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/nov/15/trans-rights-trump

As I’ve already said, it’s a bit weird to try and argue trans people are not marginalised on FWR, where the vast majority of posters oppose trans rights

That's a bit of a non sequitur, why would that mean they were "marginalised" in any meaningful way?

The question was about trans people being the most oppressed group, @Ereshkigalangcleg .

As I’ve already said, it’s a bit weird to try and argue trans people are not marginalised on FWR, where the vast majority of posters oppose trans rights 🙄

Are you seriously trying to claim that trans activists don't claim trans people to be a highly oppressed group @ElleWoods15

You know what happens without fail, every IWD?

Someone thinks it's a good idea to give a trans woman a sodding great big platform to talk about being a woman.

Because it's not enough to have Pride Month and Trans History Month and Transgender Day of Visibility and Transgender Day of Remembrance and all the rest of it, while women who make up half the global population get one measly day. Even that day has to celebrate trans women.

The SG would prefer to continue to plow money into LGBTYS, a heavily discredited and questionable organisation, for reasons which are baffling to the general public in Scotland, and focus on flying flags for a tiny number of causes instead of, say, tacking the fact that Scotland has the highest rate of drug deaths in Europe or tackling the various medical scandals in Scottish hospitals or any number of other things.

If this is your level of debate when you’re calm @Brefugee….😂

*Edited for poor grammar. Soz!

push off with the patronising "focus your anger" tripe. I am perfectly calm, and but i am hugely pissed off that the Scottish government is so absorbed with this tripe instead of putting their energy into making the country better.

tell you what though: we can probably come up with some examples. But i'm not going to because i am sick to the back teeth of TRAs never ever giving examples of, say, how to live as a woman. So you can google that yourself. or go to twitter (or probably BlueSky) and see for yourself.

I don’t disagree with your final paragraph. Why not do something positive with that anger instead? Ask IWD to start selling an official IWD flag, and ask government spaces to fly it.

Work out what you would want them to do on International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, and ask for that.

It’s a far more productive response.

As to your earlier point, I just find it really odd that GC posters are easily able apparently to paraphrase or summarise ‘what TRAs say elsewhere’, but struggle to provide actual examples.

I've said already upthread that I don't think any flags (aside from the Saltire etc) should be flown from public buildings, for a variety of different reasons. And yes, I'm in Scotland so it's my Government wasting time, money and effort on this pish.

I'm intrigued as to how 'my meaning' of 'women's single sex' only is anything than, well, women's single sex. My Government may be attempting to beclown itself by spending £61,000 of public money on arguing otherwise but single sex is single sex, no matter of how a piece of paper creates a legal fiction.

And if you think there is not a concerted effort (here and elsewhere) to minimise women's concerns about the whole scale destruction of women's single sex services through institutional capture (as the ERCC independent review laid bare) by claiming everything and bloody everything is 'transphobic', you're deeply naive. The gobsmacking chain of thought by a particularly virulent TRA on the 'three day ban on Reddit for 'hate' shows this very clearly.

my point is that anyone here who is giving the "GC" view is saying what TRAs say elsewhere.

The constant whine about how they are "most oppressed" when we can all see the statistics, we can see the people (mostly women) hounded out of jobs, nurses having to change in closets, trans flags everywhere, etc etc

Don't try the disingenuous schtick here - we have seen it all before. It is tedious.

In the meantime, to repeat what i said before: AT LEAST 2 WOMEN A WEEK. Where is their flag?

@Waitwhat23 If there are other days you think they should be honouring or commemorating, why not write to them? (Assuming you’re in Scotland. I don’t think they’d care much what the rest of us think.)

Someone upthread mentioned World AIDS Day. Well that’s on the list already.

And if you think that FWR limits itself ‘discussing the whole scale destruction of women's single sex services and organisations [within your meaning of ‘women’s single sex’ only] in the name of 'inclusivity'’, you’re naive.

3 politicians? I could name 3 Scottish politicians off the top of my head aside from from the mere 3 mentioned in the article. There has been a determined push to concrete a specific, untrue narrative.

'Moaning about trans rights'? Do you mean discussing the whole scale destruction of women's single sex services and organisations in the name of 'inclusivity'? Characterising that as 'moaning about trans rights' is very telling.

'Honoring 'plenty' of other days/seasons' is a bit of a push isn't it? From that link I posted -

'The only flags that should be flown from SG buildings in Scotland are the:

Saltire

Royal Standard at St Andrew’s House only (by Special Command or Royal Assent)

Union flag

Progress Pride flag

Commonwealth flag (Commonwealth Day only)

European flag

Autistic Pride Day flag (Autistic Pride Day only) from St Andrew’s House only

Armed Forces Day flag (Armed Forces Day only)

Red Ensign (Merchant Navy Day only)

Transgender flag on Transgender Remembrance Day

World AIDS Day flag (World AIDS Day only)

Ukraine Flag'

But @Waitwhat23, that’s not really evidence of the proposition that the trans community pushes to be seen as the ‘most oppressed’, is it? It’s a gender critical journo talking about comments made by three U.K. politicians. I’ve given up trying to guess the motivation behind the comments on all topics that come out of our politicians mouths.

And you’ve got to admit it’s a bit rich having an argument about whether or not trans people are indeed marginalised on a sub-forum (or whatever FWR is) dedicated to moaning about trans rights 😂

And @GailBlancheViola I’m not sure why it would fall to me to explain why there is a need for a trans day of remembrance when I’ve said repeatedly I don’t know why the SNP would honour that and not other days- and in fact @Waitwhat23 has helpfully posted a link showing they do in fact honour plenty of other days/seasons. Take it up with the SNP.

The 'most marginalised/oppressed' thing has been heavily pushed by activists, politicians and organisations -

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

I've said multiple times - take that up with those TRAs and Genderists who are making it into a competition one where they always come out top as the most oppressed ever, ever in the whole wide world and throughout all of history.

You've never said why trans people need a Day of Remembrance and no other group or demographic does. People on here are pointing that fact out.

From a quick review of this thread, the only people talking about ‘most oppressed’ have been @lonelywater and @GailBlancheViola (both, as I understand it, proponents of GC views). So I’m not sure what your point is @Brefugee .

As I’ve said multiple times, it’s not a bloody competition!

Yes worldwide and out of approximately 500,000 murders in 2024; approx 0.07% of all murders for a population that make up approximately 0.5% of the population.