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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
lcakethereforeIam · 19/12/2024 12:39

Wrong sex hormones aren't HRT.

ButterflyHatched · 19/12/2024 12:35

Datun · 19/12/2024 09:58

"Hatched isn't even being monitored correctly for long-term side effects, as confirmed on another thread."

Quite

Oh l've definitely had a whole host of health issues - they're a regular topic of discussion with my GP and l'd happily offer them if anyone ever formally approached me for a followup study.

I've a healthy dose of gallows humour regarding the sword of damocles hanging over me after 20 years of HRT, and the likelihood of life-changing implications in the decades to come.

And in the same bloody breath, claims to be...

...fighting for the future of kids who are in much the same situation I was and have had their futures cruelly torn away by what amounts to little more than ideological posturing

It's not a coincidence that Hilary Cass came to the conclusion she did about puberty blockers, after having spoken to hundreds of trans people.

None of that has anything to do with puberty blockers.

20 years of oral HRT is well documented as being an increased risk factor for various health issues. Anyone who takes oral HRT for 20 years will experience this elevated risk.

I have since been moved to a safer form of HRT with a significantly reduced risk, which I have now been on for several years.

You have continually misquoted me for years on this point. I have clearly and unambiguously clarified it many, many times. I am clearly and unambiguously clarifying it here again.

If you want to start a campaign to ban oral HRT then be my guest. I wouldn't recommend it personally as I think you will not be satisfied with the potential outcomes.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 11:56

Absolutely. We know this in our bones. Transactivists don't.
Too many of them view children as useful for validation purposes - as tools to manipulate and gaslight with no care for the damage they do to minds or bodies.
There's a reason a transactivist selects a parenting site of mainly women to display their mix of emotional manipulation, forced teaming and outright contempt for women and parenting. And a reason that they equate being on here as an alternative to watching netflix or playing a video game.
And of course, Dr Bell would have their measure in an instant.

ellenback21 · 19/12/2024 11:39

@MrsOvertonsWindow Becoming a parent is one of the most powerful experiences in the world - and protecting your children from danger is a fundamental instinct.

I was in a shopping centre once when an alarm went off and we were told to evacuate. I picked up my 5 year old and marched down the escalator with my eyes absolutely fixed on the exit. I don't think I trampled anyone on my way😮but I was completely focussed on getting my child out of those doors. It was one of the strongest emotional drives I have ever experienced and it came on at full force in an instant

Datun · 19/12/2024 10:57

It's not an activity or recreation like watching the latest Netflix soap or playing a board game.

always so telling, isn't it.

Datun · 19/12/2024 10:54

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 10:18

And it's not a coincidence that it's a parenting site that Butters has chosen to stage Butterslastgasp

Women and parents are the last bastion of safeguarding. Becoming a parent is one of the most powerful experiences in the world - and protecting your children from danger is a fundamental instinct. It's not an activity or recreation like watching the latest Netflix soap or playing a board game. Our children are part of us, we're their first and last protectors - which of course most transactivists fail to understand.

They can spend their time on Mumsnet trying to bully, smear, frighten and intimidate parents out of safeguarding our children. But they'll never succeed. The gig is up. The funds and influence behind closed doors is drying up. The corruption and harm is now exposed.

And all their own doing

Yes quite a few transactivists go for the fiercest protectors of children, their parents. And on this board especially, not only is it a complete waste of time, it has the opposite effect to the one they're trying to get. Given it's 'incredibly, witheringly psychologically taxing', you'd have thought the penny would've dropped by now!

What's also a bit of a recurring theme is the long screeds about poor me.

There's an unassailable expectation about the reaction from women for the self pitying whining of men. Maybe that's why a site called Mumsnet is so appealing !

Whereas you only occasionally get transmem on this board and even then they rarely write long screeds about poor me. They're often a lot more objective about their situation, despite being clearly vulnerable to the women reading it.

JellySaurus · 19/12/2024 10:52

Another success story of Operation: Let them speak!

Indeed: safeguarding is, apparently, little more than ideological posturing.

JellySaurus · 19/12/2024 10:49

lillylallylu · 19/12/2024 09:11

and everyone except the hard of thinking understands the critical importance of puberty in the physical development of humans.

And intellectual and emotional development.

Helleofabore · 19/12/2024 10:29

Datun · 19/12/2024 09:58

"Hatched isn't even being monitored correctly for long-term side effects, as confirmed on another thread."

Quite

Oh l've definitely had a whole host of health issues - they're a regular topic of discussion with my GP and l'd happily offer them if anyone ever formally approached me for a followup study.

I've a healthy dose of gallows humour regarding the sword of damocles hanging over me after 20 years of HRT, and the likelihood of life-changing implications in the decades to come.

And in the same bloody breath, claims to be...

...fighting for the future of kids who are in much the same situation I was and have had their futures cruelly torn away by what amounts to little more than ideological posturing

It's not a coincidence that Hilary Cass came to the conclusion she did about puberty blockers, after having spoken to hundreds of trans people.

Another success story of Operation: Let them speak!

Helleofabore · 19/12/2024 10:25

“I will admit that it is incredibly, witheringly psychologically taxing to continue fighting for the future of kids who are in much the same situation I was and have had their futures cruelly torn away by what amounts to little more than ideological posturing in many cases.”

This has probably already been said but, “in much the same situation I was” means that you should only ever be advocating for teenaged male people who have ‘sluggish’ puberty.

But we know from years of interaction that you are in fact an activist campaigning for the same treatment to be available to all children.

The emotional manipulation, catastrophisation and hyperbole is really outstanding in this quoted post. Remarkable.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 10:18

Datun · 19/12/2024 09:58

"Hatched isn't even being monitored correctly for long-term side effects, as confirmed on another thread."

Quite

Oh l've definitely had a whole host of health issues - they're a regular topic of discussion with my GP and l'd happily offer them if anyone ever formally approached me for a followup study.

I've a healthy dose of gallows humour regarding the sword of damocles hanging over me after 20 years of HRT, and the likelihood of life-changing implications in the decades to come.

And in the same bloody breath, claims to be...

...fighting for the future of kids who are in much the same situation I was and have had their futures cruelly torn away by what amounts to little more than ideological posturing

It's not a coincidence that Hilary Cass came to the conclusion she did about puberty blockers, after having spoken to hundreds of trans people.

And it's not a coincidence that it's a parenting site that Butters has chosen to stage Butterslastgasp

Women and parents are the last bastion of safeguarding. Becoming a parent is one of the most powerful experiences in the world - and protecting your children from danger is a fundamental instinct. It's not an activity or recreation like watching the latest Netflix soap or playing a board game. Our children are part of us, we're their first and last protectors - which of course most transactivists fail to understand.

They can spend their time on Mumsnet trying to bully, smear, frighten and intimidate parents out of safeguarding our children. But they'll never succeed. The gig is up. The funds and influence behind closed doors is drying up. The corruption and harm is now exposed.

And all their own doing

Helleofabore · 19/12/2024 10:14

Datun · 18/12/2024 11:33

There appear to be many people with such a massively deep sunk cost in either transitioning, or transitioning their children, they are incapable of acknowledging the ideology that drives it.

What's notable, however, is the effort many will go to garner sympathy on the one hand, about what an awful life they've had, with the complete denial that their 'treatment' has had any part in it.

Which leads to the other thing I try to keep in mind. And that is if people have taken puberty blockers, it's not just their physicality that's been arrested. It's highly likely that their emotional and mental maturity will not have been unaffected.

This post needs to be repeated on every page.

Datun · 19/12/2024 10:02

Greyskybluesky · 19/12/2024 10:01

I'm disappointed they didn't include a "what the fuck are you on about" emoji for this board in particular

ETA: Having said that, posters aren't afraid to actually say that so it's probably not required after all!

Edited

Yes. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting! I bet the implications of emojis on this board generated some intense discussion

Greyskybluesky · 19/12/2024 10:01

Datun · 19/12/2024 10:00

Oh yes! Thank you. So the clapping does mean thanks. It's not 'well done.'

Got it.

I'm disappointed they didn't include a "what the fuck are you on about" emoji for this board in particular

ETA: Having said that, posters aren't afraid to actually say that so it's probably not required after all!

Datun · 19/12/2024 10:00

ellenback21 · 19/12/2024 09:29

If you hover your cursor over each one the meaning pops up

Oh yes! Thank you. So the clapping does mean thanks. It's not 'well done.'

Got it.

Datun · 19/12/2024 09:58

Greyskybluesky · 19/12/2024 09:26

The treatment that Hatched refers to was also 20+ years ago.
Medical science has moved on.
Many treatments that used to be provided 20+ years ago aren't provided now.
Evidence has shown that they aren't beneficial/are actively harmful.
Hatched isn't even being monitored correctly for long-term side effects, as confirmed on another thread.

Far from "cruelly tearing away the futures" of children, this scrutiny is giving them their futures back.

"Hatched isn't even being monitored correctly for long-term side effects, as confirmed on another thread."

Quite

Oh l've definitely had a whole host of health issues - they're a regular topic of discussion with my GP and l'd happily offer them if anyone ever formally approached me for a followup study.

I've a healthy dose of gallows humour regarding the sword of damocles hanging over me after 20 years of HRT, and the likelihood of life-changing implications in the decades to come.

And in the same bloody breath, claims to be...

...fighting for the future of kids who are in much the same situation I was and have had their futures cruelly torn away by what amounts to little more than ideological posturing

It's not a coincidence that Hilary Cass came to the conclusion she did about puberty blockers, after having spoken to hundreds of trans people.

ellenback21 · 19/12/2024 09:29

Datun · 18/12/2024 17:33

What does the clapping mean? Is it well done? That's what I thought it meant, but now it looks like it's thanks?

If not, what do we do if you just want to say thanks, now?

Edited

If you hover your cursor over each one the meaning pops up

Greyskybluesky · 19/12/2024 09:28

a rising tide of reactionary transphobic rhetoric - much of which was espoused by staff who had found their growing hostility toward softening cultural attitudes toward trans people and the neutrality of a 'trans outcome' to be incompatible with a service that centred a compassionate policy of epistemic justice.

This is real tin foil hat stuff.

Greyskybluesky · 19/12/2024 09:26

The treatment that Hatched refers to was also 20+ years ago.
Medical science has moved on.
Many treatments that used to be provided 20+ years ago aren't provided now.
Evidence has shown that they aren't beneficial/are actively harmful.
Hatched isn't even being monitored correctly for long-term side effects, as confirmed on another thread.

Far from "cruelly tearing away the futures" of children, this scrutiny is giving them their futures back.

lillylallylu · 19/12/2024 09:11

and everyone except the hard of thinking understands the critical importance of puberty in the physical development of humans.

Datun · 19/12/2024 09:08

lillylallylu · 19/12/2024 09:07

@ButterflyHatched am I correct in thinking you did go through puberty? And you're here campaigning for children to skip their puberty?

...who are mostly girls

lillylallylu · 19/12/2024 09:07

@ButterflyHatched am I correct in thinking you did go through puberty? And you're here campaigning for children to skip their puberty?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 09:05

ButterflyHatched · 19/12/2024 01:23

He never actually treated childhood Gender Incongruence, never worked in GIDS and in fact worked on adults in a completely different department in a completely different building.

He has presented a story where a group of transphobes and conversion therapists who had infiltrated the organisation over time met with him in secret and presented their 'concerns'. In truth, these were largely historical issues from disgruntled ideologues about the more chaotic early days of the service alongside a rising tide of reactionary transphobic rhetoric - much of which was espoused by staff who had found their growing hostility toward softening cultural attitudes toward trans people and the neutrality of a 'trans outcome' to be incompatible with a service that centred a compassionate policy of epistemic justice.

A dubious doom-laden report was submitted by him to the Board of Directors,
which the trust identified as comprising a list of historical issues which had already been addressed and inciting even greater abuse toward existing staff. He was threatened with disciplinary action and then quit rather than be fired.

He has since been lionised by the reactionary press alongside two prominent conversion therapists - one of whom used to work in GIDS but left when it became clear her views weren't compatible with actually providing meaningful treatment to the children she'd been charged with helping.

You'll find most of the rhetoric surrounding GIDS is hopelessly naïve, often involving highly confused timelines that shift events and schools of thought around by whole decades at a time, and clearly focussed more toward building a sensational and spicy story that will drive headlines than it is toward accurately reflecting the true events.

Truth is often the first casualty when a hack with an agenda catches a whiff of a career-making big break.

This nasty hate filled post is the fading roar of transactivism.
The Stonewall captured CQC found GIDs to be Inadequate.
Both the Conservative & Labour Governments have completely accepted the findings of the Cass Review despite both having been historically in thrall to transactivism.
The safeguarding lead at GIDS, Sonia Appleby, won damages from the Trust at an employment tribunal after the repeated attempts by activist staff to stop her raining safeguarding concerns about children.
GIDs is closed and the treatment of gender questioning children being moved into children's hospitals where evidence based ethical medical practice is the norm rather than the exception.
Time to Think - Hannah Barnes book is a detailed expose of the ease with which self interested transactivists were allowed to influence practice at GIDS. She highlights the ease with which the paedophile / porn scandal hit Mermaids & Gendered Intelligence groups were able to infiltrate what should have been a medical service for children to shape practice for their own niche demands.

Below is a link to an interview with Dr Bell. Maybe have a listen and consider who has children's best interests at heart ? Butterfly with the Pied Piper complex "children following in my footsteps" (remember what happened to the children led away by the Pied Piper) or Dr Bell with his thoughtful, evidenced knowledge about children:

https://www.channel4.com/news/children-have-been-very-seriously-damaged-by-nhs-gender-clinic-says-former-tavistock-staff-governor

SensibleSigma · 19/12/2024 08:59

I’m continually shocked by the misrepresentation of the issues in some quarters. Having had a teen with a trauma history explain that the long term consequences of the drugs she was taking didn’t matter, as the life expectancy for trans people is so poor, I could cry at how toxic it is.

It feels a bit like the old narrative that being a wife and mother is the one true destiny for girls, and that they will never be fulfilled unless they have a home and some bums to clean, and a bloke to service. The anguish suffered by women who weren’t attracted to men, or failed to ‘catch’ a husband, or were infertile- being constantly told they were failing, that they’d missed out on the highest/only achievement that really counted…

We all face obstacles as we realise that our bodies and brains and circumstances constrain the future we will have. Children don’t get to be astronauts and pop stars.

Hoardasurass · 19/12/2024 08:50

ButterflyHatched · 19/12/2024 01:23

He never actually treated childhood Gender Incongruence, never worked in GIDS and in fact worked on adults in a completely different department in a completely different building.

He has presented a story where a group of transphobes and conversion therapists who had infiltrated the organisation over time met with him in secret and presented their 'concerns'. In truth, these were largely historical issues from disgruntled ideologues about the more chaotic early days of the service alongside a rising tide of reactionary transphobic rhetoric - much of which was espoused by staff who had found their growing hostility toward softening cultural attitudes toward trans people and the neutrality of a 'trans outcome' to be incompatible with a service that centred a compassionate policy of epistemic justice.

A dubious doom-laden report was submitted by him to the Board of Directors,
which the trust identified as comprising a list of historical issues which had already been addressed and inciting even greater abuse toward existing staff. He was threatened with disciplinary action and then quit rather than be fired.

He has since been lionised by the reactionary press alongside two prominent conversion therapists - one of whom used to work in GIDS but left when it became clear her views weren't compatible with actually providing meaningful treatment to the children she'd been charged with helping.

You'll find most of the rhetoric surrounding GIDS is hopelessly naïve, often involving highly confused timelines that shift events and schools of thought around by whole decades at a time, and clearly focussed more toward building a sensational and spicy story that will drive headlines than it is toward accurately reflecting the true events.

Truth is often the first casualty when a hack with an agenda catches a whiff of a career-making big break.

The medical professionals who were whistle-blowers are not transphobic. They were however very concerned about the homophobic jokes, statements and practices led to staff happily stating that there would soon be no gays as they were transing the gay away.
His report that was dismissed by the Tavistock board but upheld by the CQC who repeatedly gave gigs the lowest rating possible for failure to keep records, gain informed consent or give appropriate counselling or consideration to underlying mental health diagnosis.
The kera bell case further exposed the abject failure of the Tavistock behave in the best interest of their patients. It also forced Holly carmichele (then head of gids) to admit that "trans children" have a suicide rate that is the same as any other cahms patients and nowhere near the oft quoted 40% figure.
The cass review which ultimately led to the closure of the gids service at the Tavistock and the banning of puberty blockers exonerated dr bell.
Yes dr bell like many who stand up for the safeguarding of women and/or children was maliciously targeted with false allegations and accusations by tra staff and yes he retired from practice however he was eventually exonerated and given a public apology.
You are correct about the truth being the 1st victim in all of this and as usual you are the 1 being disingenuous. Watchful waiting is not transphobic or conversion therapy as I know being someone who greatly benefited from it when as an autistic abused child I suffered from body dismorphia (as gender dysphoria was correctly referred to back in the stone age's), it helped me to come to terms with my changing body and deal with the abuse I suffered. It also helped all of my group therapy cohort including the 1 person who went on to transition in adulthood who is an old school transvestite (his term) who is clear that he hasn't changed sex just the outward appearance of his body to make him feel better about it.

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