Dr David Bell

If someone isn't honest that cross sex hormones are not hrt I don't think I'd give a lot of time to their thoughts on medicalisation of children...

Receiving exogenous hormones that are not what a person's body was formed around producing is not HRT at all. Posters are quite correct in pointing this out. It is indeed more accurate to refer to them as Cross Sex Hormones.

However, it is quite clear that the use of this inaccurate and misleading language, calling such drugs 'HRT' is mean to not only be convincing that this is a 'woman' receiving the correct drugs for their sex category, but also it is forced teaming and now it is being used for coercion.

The 'you will not be satisfied with the potential outcomes' is clearly meant to be a threat that if we seek to ban male people from receiving the oestrogen and progesterone supplements designed to alleviate symptoms of menopause, that we will end up blocking our own supply.

There really is no tactic that extreme trans activists will not stoop too to force their demands to be met.

And it is always rather illustrative for people to read.

Your not on hrt your on cross sex hormones be honest with yourself atleast, that way you can be realistic about your riak of complications

The fantasy world that so many trans activists are immersed in is something that has always interested me because of the large numbers who are also obsessive about gaming, gaming, fantasy or sci-fi (the Whoniverse is a particularly interesting one).

These interests are massively over represented.

There's this weird disconnect between how the world sees and self identity generally too. It's not restricted to sex/gender identity. It's a whole cognitive pattern.

Unfortunately, regardless of how you identify reality has this nasty habit of disagreeing with you.

Dissociation is the key point.

Indeed we know there are bunch of dissociation disorders. These do not have demands for us to affirm their dissociation though.

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/dissociative-disorders/#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20dissociative%20disorder%20can,uncertain%20about%20who%20you%20are

I preferred the old ‘thank you’. These emojis feel a bit … adolescent. Sigh.

Indeed. I've been listening to Andrew Gold's Heretics where he interviewed Dr Az Hakeem (consultant psychiatrist /psychotherapist who dealt with adults with gender dysphoria) who spoke with great insight about a range of issues. At one point he spoke about "trans facts" versus "real facts" and the fantasy world that so many of his patients immersed themselves in.
It's a long listen but with some fascinating insights:

x.com/AndrewGold_ok/status/1869147637271912933

Follow in your footsteps? How very humble of you to frame it in such a way. In fact, you use the word "chilling"...

It infuriates me that trans people are just as erroneously convinced that they are denied treatment purely because of medics' self-interest and bigoted views as people with DSDs are convinced they were given treatment purely because of medics' nefarious agenda.

It couldn't possibly be that these doctors do not have a vested interest and are simply using their training and experience to judge what they think will result in the best outcome for the patient.

career-making big break

Oddly though David Bell was not alone in his concerns. A number tried to whistleblow and they suffered the typical fate of whistleblowers. It was more or less career killing. They had nothing to gain by speaking and everything to lose.

Not only this, but the Tavistock then managed to demonstrate, when asked about long term outcomes and follow up that it had a 'dog ate my homework' attitude to this.

And it got closed down due to a number of safeguarding failures. It didn't get closed down purely due to David Bell.

Then we had a independent review by Hilary Cass. But once again this is somehow explained away by smears.

It's almost as if there's a pattern of incompetence by those carrying out 'gender affirming care' rather than transphobia.

HRT is an actual thing...meant to replace naturally occuring hormones that have declined after female menopause - not the prescription of cross sex hormones to those whose bodies do not naturally produce them.

As always after reading any thread with Butters fingers all over it, I’m convinced that they are a deep state double agent GC activist. Everything they post does our work for us

" transphobes and conversion therapists had infiltrated the organisation"

You do realise how conspiratorial and unhinged this sounds? The people you are talking about are people who had been working in children's services their whole career; some of whom were gay, and were actually concerned that gay children were having "conversion therapy' practised upon them; sometimes in thrall to homophobic parents

It really doesn't matter what field of medicine it is, when arguments becomes emotively and ideologically driven that's when you should be concerned.

Any area of medicine which refers to emotional appeals is vulnerable to abuses of power and unethical practice. It is a recipe for harm and it is a recipe for conditions to enable a medical scandal.

Interestingly women's health tends to be subject to this more than mens - and that's down to power imbalances.

Time and again when it comes to medical scandals you see children, the disabled and women the most likely to be victims.

There is a whole history of stuff done to autistic kids in the name of advancing medicine which has actually been an abuse and has harmed those involved.

But god forbid we talk about this and why ethical practice was adopted in the first place, because otherwise we might destroy the lives of tranchildren who would benefit from scientific unproven treatments which stunt their development and then when asked for long term studies on how children who have undergone these treatments we are met with a tumbleweed and yet more about the woes of grown male adults who transitioned as adults.

I'm sure I read a pp calling Dr Bell transphobic. That is not only wildly inaccurate, and potentially libellous, I'd argue it's a completely 180 to how Dr Bell has acted towards children and adults who have found themselves on the GIDs trans conveyor belt. Saying 'no', saying 'let's be sure', saying 'these children deserve sound treatment' is not hatred. To say otherwise is...well...it seems to me a bit Dr Bellphobic.

You forget to mention the good dollop of emotional blackmail and manipulative language to try and guilt people into accepting the idea of gender affirming care because lack of it 'destroys so many lives'. There's nothing like a good swipe at women is there?

But it comes without a single thought the documented harms particularly for detransitioners and the issue that treatment may be a psychological crutch which just causes problems anyway even for those who think it works.

They want Dr Bell to shut up rather than to have an adult discussion about this. Because if they do then their sunk costs might force them to face up to reality and being the victim of unethical practice and that would never do.

Because ultimately it's not about the 'poor kids who won't get treatment' it's about the self. Any every other fucker here can see the children involved are just pawns in the politics of adults.

Anyone who gave a shit about children would encourage evidence based medicine, recognised ethical practice and open debate even in areas of controversy without all this smearing.

When ethical practice and research become ugly words to be denied and replaced by emotive language you know you someone who isn't a responsible adult worth listening to.

ButterflyHatched · Today 01:23

The only part of that particular post which was not utterly wrong was your correct conjunction of the verb "to comprise."

Hoardasaurus made a very comprehensive refutation of every single one of your emotive propaganda points.

I'm not misquoting, I'm cutting and pasting.

The vast majority of children on puberty blockers end up taking wrong sex hormones. The treatments are intertwined.

and it's not HRT.

There is a body dysmorphia disorder where people want to be disabled, or to cut off a limb.

Doctors are clear about ‘First do no harm’ in these cases.

This forum is largely a place where informed women come to keep up to date with what’s currently happening in relation to the pushback of women against the transactivist agenda.

What do you think your posts achieve? Is your intent to disrupt the women’s discussions? If so, you are quite successful.

If you are genuinely interested in fighting for what you believe and persuading people your cause is righteous and worth fighting for, then posting here is an absolute waste of your time and you would indeed be better off watching TV or playing games.

Correction: A man who understands ethics.

HTH

I've not read the full thread but, considering the woeful failures of the physicians and staff, who actually works in the GID, kudos to Dr Bell for putting his career and reputation on the line to do what they couldn't or wouldn't.

But it's not replacing a hormone is it?

Quite.

The subject of the thread is Dr David Bell - so thanks for the bump and here's a Sky News interview with him discussing the dangers of socially transitioning children:

news.sky.com/video/affirming-a-childs-wish-to-change-gender-completely-wrong-dr-david-bell-13112054

What? Accurately?

Calling them 'Wrong sex hormones' does not reflect well on the seriousness with which you seem to be treating this subject.