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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woke friends

62 replies

shabanga · 14/12/2024 21:31

Name changed, regular poster.

I just need some advice. How do you guys handle friends captured by wokeness?

I have an old friend who I noticed kept quiet about woke issues whenever I mentioned them, which I optimistically hoped meant she agreed but was too afraid to say, because she works in academia.

However after our last meet up I feel like she is totally captured and I was unable to say anything due to the circumstances of that meet up (kids around). I feel so sad about it because I know she is a good person. I feel like she needs her eyes opening but I just don't know how to do it. I'm so terrible at directness and want to be gentle with her.

Any advice much appreciated.

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DoIEver · 15/12/2024 15:55

ChaChaChooey · 15/12/2024 14:01

Woke = Progressive Authoritarianism.

HTH.

Does it though? As I have seen many things described as woke, from feminism, to veganism to sandwich fillings

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14086091/gen-z-waging-war-sandwiches-ditching-classic-flavours.html

It has gone from a word used by American black people to describe the feeling of waking up to the way they are treated in society to a word promote outrage in a certain type of person.

Now Gen Z are waging war on our sandwiches!

Popular bread manufacturer Allinson's launched its Great British Sandwich Study to lift the lids on the nation's lunchboxes and reveal their changing tastes for the beloved snack.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14086091/gen-z-waging-war-sandwiches-ditching-classic-flavours.html

ChaChaChooey · 15/12/2024 14:01

DoIEver · 15/12/2024 00:10

What do you mean by "woke"? Some people would consider posting on a women's rights / feminism forum as woke.

I feel like she needs her eyes opening but I just don't know how to do it.

She might feel the same way about you and your views. Would you be open to her trying to open your eyes or would you find it patronising?

Do you feel that you can't only be friends with people who you agree with?

Edited

Woke = Progressive Authoritarianism.

HTH.

Happyinarcon · 15/12/2024 13:47

Just ignore it, the sands are shifting quickly enough

Vegemiteandhoneyontoast · 15/12/2024 13:14

I agree with MarieDeGournay. When friends of mine became very woke I just couldn't look at them in same way, knowing what they really think. It does feel like there's a gulf between us now and it's one I cannot cross. How can I trust, let alone be friends with, someone who doesn't respect women's boundaries?

TempestTost · 15/12/2024 12:36

I think it helps to understand how deep these ideas are in her mind.

Is she very committed to all of I'd politics? What made you realize that it was really so deeply felt? Or is it mainly about gender ideology?

duc748 · 15/12/2024 12:36

Wise words, Marie.

MarieDeGournay · 15/12/2024 10:43

This issue has cropped up a few times on here - there you are, getting along nicely with someone you like and then bang! they say something like TWAW, and you realise there's a gulf between you that you didn't know existed.
On a purely emotional level, it's difficult, as it may result in the loss of a friendship, and that's always sad.

To answer DoIEver's question about only being friends with people you agree with - it depends on the subject of disagreement. If they like coffee and I like tea, no problem. But some things are more fundamental and if there's a big mismatch, deep conversations are going to run aground on the jagged rocks of differing perception of basic reality.

So of course you can 'pal around with' someone with different opinions, as long as they are not really offensive, but a deeper friendship with someone who does not share the same basic values as you? Don't think so.

Sometimes you can be tootling along nicely in a friendship until an issue is brought into sharp focus by some contemporary event - a racist killing, an attack on a hotel housing migrants, a war somewhere in the world, a colleague's pronouns..
and suddenly there's that gulf between you.

I had that experience with a group of friends I had been close to for years, they completely shocked me one evening with a conversation full of racial stereotyping - not particularly negative, but mindless stereotypes about what different people are 'naturally' good or bad at. When I objected to what they were saying, I saw their attitude to me changing, as my attitude to them was, and we have been polite but not very friendly since.

It's very sad, but no, DoIEver, I couldn't be friends with them because on something very fundamental, I do not agree with them.

shabanga - I wouldn't tackle this head on, I'd have a couple more conversations, keeping it light, to see what the lie of the land is, and how much of a deal it is for you, and then proceed in whatever way feels best for you.

Forester1 · 15/12/2024 10:19

It’s not your role to open her eyes if you want to remain friends. It sounds like she’s not forcing the issue so I’d just keep to other topics at this stage.

DoIEver · 15/12/2024 00:10

What do you mean by "woke"? Some people would consider posting on a women's rights / feminism forum as woke.

I feel like she needs her eyes opening but I just don't know how to do it.

She might feel the same way about you and your views. Would you be open to her trying to open your eyes or would you find it patronising?

Do you feel that you can't only be friends with people who you agree with?

Enough4me · 14/12/2024 23:58

Is she bringing it up (TWAW or similar nonsense) or in some way running women down?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/12/2024 23:56

Suppose it depends on what aspect of "woke" - but if it's the usual TWAW mantra then if she's in academia, the consequences for her speaking the truth may be severe. How you work out whether it's fear or she really believes this stuff is the challenge.

If you've children then that would be my focus. If she's a parent, unless she's got a child captured by this, I'd use that as a way in. BUT - it depends on the relationship and there are countless threads on here with women talking about lost friendships over this issue. Maybe asking a few questions - as a parent what does she think of Wes Streeting banning the use of puberty blockers on children etc?

shabanga · 14/12/2024 21:32

Ugh grammar totally shit but I've had a few drinks Blush

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