CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

The victim of the beating and stabbing is a natal male who identifies as a transwomen according to reporting at the time of the crime and the trans activist.

That was my conclusion too, but they were described as a transgender girl, which means a natal female.

I knew the name rang a bell.

The KC, Deanna Heer, also acted as the prosecutor in the case of Brianna Ghey.

The victim was male, I think.

But was the victim a 'transgender girl' aka young transman aka natal female or a 'transgender boy' aka young transwoman aka natal male?

Obviously they should not have been subjected to violent attempted murder, equally obviously they should not have obtained sex by deception, but the report is very confusing.

I agree @ArabellaScott

The girl who is alleged to have been the main aggressor seems to have been drafted in to attack the victim. A horrific story indeed.

Horrific story. On so many levels.

The victim suffered a terrible attack, the people involved were practically children, apparently very troubled children.

Sex by deception is sexual assault.

The filming of the sex act is also appalling.

And yes, this is a mix of vigilante vengeance and transphobia.

Activists have overused the term to the extent it's become meaningless, and this has blurred and obscured a genuine prejudice.

Nobody wins in this scenario.

Transgender girl stabbed nine times 'for lying about her gender' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14289091/Transgender-girl-stabbed-nine-times-roller-skating-party-revenge-lying-gender-performing-sex-act-boy-court-hears.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton
So this young man lied about his sex before sexually assaulting another young man, then when the young man who was sexually assaulted was told the truth about the sex of his attacker he confronted him and was again lied to until he held a knife to the throat of his attacker (wholly wrong of him).
The sexually predatory young man apologised for the sexual assault and assumed everything was fine unfortunately for him instead of being reported to the police and prosecuted he was attacked by his victim and 6 of his friends before being left for dead.

Now I am in NO WAY justifying or excusing either of the physical attacks on the trans young man they were wrong, and his sexual assault by deception should have been prosecuted and not dealt with by street justice however it was only a matter of time until a man reacted violently to being sexually assaulted by deception and it will unfortunately happen again until we stop telling trans people that it's OK to lie about there sex to gain consent (again I'm not excusing what the sexual assault victim and his friends did). I'm highlighting this case here because it demonstrates the risks that we warned about to trans people of lieing about their sex to gain consent from men very clearly.
I do feel very sorry for the young man who was beaten and stabbed he didn't deserve that he does however belong in jail as the predatory sex offender that he is

And another confusing article and headline.

A man without a penis?

And then after getting some way into the article it finally said that the person was female.

This is why I have no faith in the media because of the obfuscation and failure to report on inconvenient truths.

I read that part of your post as you giving your view, not as you describing a patriarchal narrative that thinks that women are being silly by dressing in "man repeller" clothing.

My mistake, I apologise.

My retort, if aimed at the men who think I should wear skirts and push-up bras to attract them, would still hold true. I would not have aimed it at you if I'd understood your post properly.

I'm not sure why I would mention whether or not I have been sexually harassed in a post drawing attention to how men think men dressing 'like women' is ridiculous whilst women dressing 'like men' is undesirable but understandable.

Sadly (unsurprisingly as I am female), I have been sexually harassed, and sexually assaulted but these attacks didn't happen because of what I was wearing. They happened as a result of misogyny and men thinking they can do whatever they like to me because I'm female.

Misogyny also underpins the phenomenon highlighted in my first paragraph.

I think when it comes to a lot of the most vocal genderists, it's more - tell me that you're male and enjoy doing the harrassing. Which does not negate the accuracy of @Brainworm's summary.

Whilst woman are silly not to do this

Tell me that you've never been sexually harassed without telling me that you've never been sexually harassed.

46XY CAIS people should absolutely disclose their complete inability to become pregnant to a male sexual partner, just as Carlos Delacruz should have disclosed to her girlfriends that she could not make them pregnant.

Whether parenthood is possible absolutely affects whether someone's consent is truly consent.

That's a lot of words to say "not everyone is bisexual and we should respect the sexual orientation of those who aren't".

There is a dominant narrative in society that women need and want to attract men. Therefore, it is wise to dress in ways that men like. Whilst woman are silly not to do this, them dressing 'like men' is somewhat understandable, because 'who wouldn't want to be a man?'.

Conversely, men should dress as men. Any man who seeks to dress like women are ridiculous and deserve ridicule or scorn, because no sane/real man would demean himself in this way.

It doesn't seem to be wearing clothes because they appeal or because they are practical. Its because they are linked to feminity or masculinity, the gender non conformity is the purpose not the consequence.

A woman would wear a skirt one day and trackie bottoms the next day and not have to label either themselves or the clothes. They may appear GNC sometimes but its accidental.

The femme dressing man needs the clothes to be gender coded, otherwise his identity isnt on display.

Yes I've never heard a female saying "dressing femme" or a male saying "dressing masc". At least not anyone heterosexual (which is quite important in this thread when talking about homosexual males and females sleeping with heterosexual partners whilst lying about actual sex).

I does only seem to be those within the gender ideology world who would use those terms.

That is a good approach Dean. As long as the poster isn't sealioning as if their life depends on it, it works well.

Over nearly a quarter of a century online (and how did that happen?) I have sometimes answered questions or responded to posts that did not seem to be in good faith because other, younger, less battle-hardened readers might take what is postulated in them as fact and need to see some realism. Easier than challenging a fellow poster, and more likely to be read.

Chariot asked: "What is dressing' femme' ?- this is certainly not a common phrase amongst women".

IME it is used by TRAs and gender identity believers. Normal speak would be along the lines of 'I often wear skirts'. However, in reality land, a woman (adult human female) with PCOS remains a woman whether she is wearing trousers or a skirt. Dressing femme or masc does not change your sex.

The memory that comes to mind is when a TRA Bristol University academic wrote a report stating that as some women have mastectomies due to breast cancer , men should be allowed to access female changing rooms as 'transwomen' - men who say they are women- are an example of 'non normative' women like women who have had breast cancer. It was one of the most offensive and misogynistic reports I have ever read, and from memory it was used by a few TRA organisations to try and end SS services for women.

Peter Dunne. It was used as evidence for the GRR bill in Scotland IIRC. It stated that as women "tolerate" (the word he used) other women who have had mastectomies for breast cancer, they should also be ok with "other women with different bodies" ie penis havers.

I find this whole scenario rather weird, and I wonder if it is again another attempt to use masculine women as a cover to precent tightening laws and regulations around trans women.

Rape is rape, there isn't "rape by deception". Women cannot be convicted of rape.

If this bizarre scenario existed when a man elected to have sex with a woman thinking she was a trans woman, because the woman has no penis she cannot be convicted of rape. Sex be deception would only come into play if the woman pretended to be a trans woman.

For real cases of sex by deception the police would have to look for evidence that reasonable attempts were made to deceive (like messages etc). Mistaken belief isn't good enough.

As always with the application of the law, the police and CPS would look it the scenario and see if it is worth prosecuting. There simply isn't going to be a world where masculine woman are instantly prosecuted for having sex with someone.