CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

So Butters, if you were about to get it on with a chap and he says 'just want to check you're not a fella', would you be truthful and say yes you are or would you lie and say you're a woman?

They deserve some kind of award if that's the case.

Criminal is another word. But as we see in so many posts, abiding by the law, respect for others, the need to safeguard children or to refrain from promoting conspiracy theories about suicide comes a poor second to looking for opportunities to berate women with endless self indulgent whines about "anti trans".

Personally I reckon the poster is a plant by those seeking to convince us all of the inherent anti women, anti safeguarding children beliefs held by those intent on transitioning children.... but I could be wrong.

'Illogical' is one word for it.

Illuminating given the posts on the book thread though

Which thread @ResisterOfTwaddleRex ?

Being a heterosexual man who is only attracted to women, and does not wish to have sex with a gay man =/= being transphobic or homophobic. It's a personal preference, not a philosophical position.

I'm not anti trans people but I am all for open honesty including being fully aware of any factors that could have a bearing in a decision to consent to have sex with someone. of course according to butters that makes me anti trans. Funny how perspectives can be so different.

You can not give informed consent without open and honest disclosure. As the partner of someone with a dsd he made sure I was fully aware of the implications before we started a sexual relationship.

It's both the best way to ensure congruence and minimise gender dysphoria, AND the best way to protect yourself from direct transphobia. If the bigots do not know you exist, it's a lot harder for them to actively abuse you.

Why not disclose anti-trans views? Why would you lie about holding them? Why would you hide them when they're the best way to actively repel trans people and anyone who disagrees with them from ever wanting to sleep with you?

Disclosure in a way controlled by you is a lot safer than someone working it out when you’re alone and naked with them. You could disclose it by text, for example.

You’re trying to argue that stealthing is great and a right that trans people should have, despite the obvious risks it brings to both their own safety and the risk of committing a criminal offence. It’s utterly illogical.

And don't be surprised if you fail to do so and find yourself in Court.

I don't think we are in disagreement here, though I will mention that this board does have quite a few posters who have identified themselves as men.

ButterflyHatched I'm puzzled by your insistence on 'danger' and 'harm' and transpeople 'having sex with dangerous people who mean us harm' here on a board which is called Feminism/Women's Rights where 90.something% of your interlocutors are women. Biologically female, for the sake of clarity.

The element of danger and harm in intimate relationships has a very clear bias - 94.4% of perpetrators are male [UK 2024 stats].

So a transperson in a relationship [I'm not clear from your posts whether you are referring to sexual encounters, or longer relationships or both] is most likely to come to harm if they their partner is male.

If a transwomen, a.k.a. a biological male, sets their sights, unluckily, on a woman who turns out to be one of those awful GC terves - who experiences the harm? who is damaged? who is endangered?

If I was GC lesbian terf who was the object of a transwomen's attentions, and belatedly discovered the biological sex of my suitor, my reaction would be negative, but it would not be to do them any damage or harm; they would not be in any danger.

I, on the other hand, finding myself in a vulnerable situation with someone who I initially trusted, but have now found out belongs to the group which represents 94.4% of abusers of women like me - I'd be checking for a clear path to the door.

If you are arguing that transwomen who have sex with men are 'having sex with dangerous people who mean us harm' - well that's a whole other - and sadly familiar to us women - story about male violence, isn't it?

I'm not secretly holding "negative and discriminatory" views by going about my daily business being a heterosexual female. Being heterosexual means not shagging a person of the same sex; this is not "secretive". I'm not endangering a trans-identifying female by confirming that I'm not a lesbian. This is just getting ridiculous.

Yes @larklane17

You do as you see fit @ButterflyHatched but the onus is on you to gain meaningful consent to sex without deceiving people, not them.

You don't even know if it's safe to disclose your medical history to a partner until they tell you, which does make the whole exercise rather tricky.

I'll be sure to check if they hold negative views toward trans people or transness in general well in advance of any prospective intimacy, don't worry. I suppose if they lie and choose to start an intimate relationship with someone for whom it is clearly important enough to ask about, then there isn't much I can do about it.

The law here seems to be having the opposite effect - it serves to embolden those who hold negative regressive views about trans people or transness in general and say that they're not only right to be disgusted by the marginalised minority group that draws their ire, but that those minorities can never truly be safe even in a loving intimate relationship; that they must always be watching over their shoulder and fearing their past catching up with them.

It's simply saying that people have the right to know who they are having sex with, to be able to give informed consent. Those who struggle to understand consent and that other people matter and have rights too, should not be having sex.

Being 'marginalised', 'vulnerable', 'oppressed', a minority, or whatever other buzzword you can think of, doesn't give you the right to deceive someone in to having sex with you. The world doesn't revolve around you and what you want.

Herberts gonna Herbert.

It's normally something I'd open up about later, when it's safe and I'm comfortable sharing such an intensely personal and traumatic part of my past.

Great, but just make sure you do it before you have sex with someone else.

Fascinating...

Do you know at what point I disclosed the medical treatment I had in my youth when I met prospective partners in the past?
Never.
It just doesn't happen like this in the real world.

It's normally something I'd open up about later, when it's safe and I'm comfortable sharing such an intensely personal and traumatic part of my past.

I will be countering Butterfly's misinformation every single time.