Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

713 replies

Chariothorses · 14/12/2024 13:29

Following public objections, the CPS announced yesterday they have changed the proposed legal guidance on Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO), specifically the guidance on “Deception as to gender”, which can be found in Chapter 6 Consent, to 'Deception as to sex'. Rape and Sexual Offences - Chapter 6: Consent | The Crown Prosecution Service.

The outcome of the consultation is available here: Consultation on the Deception as to Gender section in the Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO) legal guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service.

summary of consultation responses here: Consultation on CPS guidance on Deception as to Gender - Summary of Responses | The Crown Prosecution Service.

There are ongoing problems re ideological capture by trans lobbyists and misogyny within the CPS so thanks to all who contributed to the changes they have reluctantly introduced.

Consultation on CPS guidance on Deception as to Gender - Summary of Responses | The Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/consultation-cps-guidance-deception-gender-summary-responses

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
ApocalipstickNow · 18/12/2024 21:16

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 20:37

Science fiction has absolutely no impact on the fact that it is illegal to deceive a sexual partner about your sex.

But what if there was, I dunno, some kind of sex planet or sexy multiverse or something where anything goes? Surely that legitimises a quick fumble in the back of a Vauxhall Nova with your fingers crossed?

GailBlancheViola · 18/12/2024 21:05

Isn't it a real life demonstration of the incoherence of this ideology. No intellectual basis, no credible ethical arguments - just intimidation and coercion of women, children and the vulnerable?

The depths are really being plumbed now with the what if scenarios, desperate stuff.

No male is ever female and no-one should even contemplate deceiving another person about their sex when they are considering a sexual relationship, that's is the beginning, middle and end. No ifs, buts, maybes or pleas for sacred caste status.

Don't lie, mislead or attempt to trick people.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 20:37

Science fiction has absolutely no impact on the fact that it is illegal to deceive a sexual partner about your sex.

JanesLittleGirl · 18/12/2024 20:29

But what if I was a twin but my female body combined with my male twin's body shortly after conception and I developed as a baby with both large and small gamete production capability?

Who cares? It's just another ridiculous sci-fi scenario like brains in bottles or brain transplants.

SensibleSigma · 18/12/2024 20:27

we’ve diverted away from the subject, which is sex by deception- as it would be if you were to present as having an opposite sexed body.

But on the wonders of brain transplants, and the extraordinary human body… I was pondering today about being pregnant with my sons. How their brains were literally constructed out of mine, and my brain shrank in the process. I have some male dna debris circulating in my body as a result of carrying them.

How half my DNA was present in my grandmother’s womb, in an egg in the ovary of my unborn mother.

Truly extraordinary.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/12/2024 19:58

NecessaryScene · 18/12/2024 19:56

I'm still struggling with why this is posed as some sort of philosophical conundrum.

Is there some confusion about the meaning of male and female? The words for the two sexes?

I feel like people are being asked "If I turn up to a car dealership driving a Volvo, but leave driving a Volkswagen, what sort of car is that now?"

Volvo and Volkswagen are words for types of car, not types of driver. Even if people have stereotypical views about either.

Isn't it a real life demonstration of the incoherence of this ideology. No intellectual basis, no credible ethical arguments - just intimidation and coercion of women, children and the vulnerable?

NecessaryScene · 18/12/2024 19:56

I'm still struggling with why this is posed as some sort of philosophical conundrum.

Is there some confusion about the meaning of male and female? The words for the two sexes?

I feel like people are being asked "If I turn up to a car dealership driving a Volvo, but leave driving a Volkswagen, what sort of car is that now?"

Volvo and Volkswagen are words for types of car, not types of driver. Even if people have stereotypical views about either.

Helleofabore · 18/12/2024 19:49

ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 19:36

So you would be...what?

A man?
A woman?

A person with a brain that has a great chance of killing me because it is the opposite sex for the body that it is in.

It is an irrelevant exercise because it is unlikely to happen and it bares fuck all significance or comparison for any person's life that has come before or is currently living.

If a person has to resort to this type of science fiction experiment to try to convince anyone that they are the opposite sex, it really does say a great deal about the fuckwittery that is being relied on.

No person is born in the wrong body.
No person has the opposite sex brain.

Whatever you think this exercise is doing, it is not reflecting reality in any way and it does not make womanhood something that any male person can claim.

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 18/12/2024 19:49

ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 19:37

What would living as a man mean?

In this context, not trying to alter the body I'd been given. That is all.

ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 19:47

Helleofabore · 18/12/2024 19:03

Yes. Transplanting a brain coded for a male person into a female person or vice versa means the control centre for the body is likely to not be able to keep the body healthy and maybe not even alive. How will it regulate a body of the opposite sex?

Gee whizz I dunno, most of the brain is autonomous anyway so at the point we can do a body transplant and restore full sensory and motor control then we're clearly past that technical hurdle.

Are you a male person or a female person?

SensibleSigma · 18/12/2024 19:47

Does anyone remember Steve Martin? Miss M’helmahelmahey!

He carefully chose a beautiful slender body for his beautiful brain, only for her to eat it into plus size.

Realistically, no one with a brain that’s genetically male because it’s in a male body, from conception, can claim to have a woman’s brain.

Well they can, but no one with any sense would actually believe them.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 18/12/2024 19:45

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 19:43

Yeah, Eresh. WHAT ARE YOU?

You lot have really made me laugh - and over use the new emojis 😂

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 19:43

Yeah, Eresh. WHAT ARE YOU?

big brother depression GIF
ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 19:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/12/2024 18:44

So if, say, due to some kind of exotic terrible injury your brain had needed to be moved into a body that was phenotypically male at birth with male genitalia and able to undergo endogenous male puberty, you would have grown up to be...what?

I'll decide when it happens 🤷‍♀️

You don't get to decide, though, surely? You are either male or female. Which are you? You look male. Are you male? Are you a man?

ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 19:37

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 18/12/2024 18:38

I'm afraid it's my fault, because of the brain in a jar thing. But I'm willing to answer @ButterflyHatched 's question. In that situation, I would live as a man, because I would have the body of a man. And human beings can't change sex. My feminine brain (?) would have to lump it.

What would living as a man mean?

NecessaryScene · 18/12/2024 19:36

Far be from it from me to be a purist about my Children's Television Workshop output, or muppetry in general, but I had to quit watching Sesame Street when Elmo barged in. Definitely a hand up that arse.

ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 19:36

Helleofabore · 18/12/2024 18:47

If any person has a brain transplant with a brain from a different sexed body then they have a brain that came from a different sexed body that had the coding for that sexed body where it was formed.

What is the point of the discussion?

So you would be...what?

A man?
A woman?

Helleofabore · 18/12/2024 19:34

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 19:24

What if the hand up Elmo's arse didn't actually belong to a muppet?

Yep.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/12/2024 19:24

GrinGrinGrin

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 19:24

What if the hand up Elmo's arse didn't actually belong to a muppet?

Freezing Sesame Street GIF by Willem Dafriend
NecessaryScene · 18/12/2024 19:19

Everyone needs a hobby. It's okay, it's quite cold this time of year.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2024 19:18

NecessaryScene · 18/12/2024 19:14

I do already have a woman's brain in a man's body. And I'm a man.

Where's the complication?

What have you been doing?!

NecessaryScene · 18/12/2024 19:14

I do already have a woman's brain in a man's body. And I'm a man.

Where's the complication?

Butteryscone · 18/12/2024 19:11

Brain transplants 🤣

It has become this ludicrous because it is ludicrous.

There are millions of people who have compromised lives due to brain injuries and medics can’t fix them. I can confidently say brain transplants will never happen.
It would be nice to even be able to fix optical neurons so people could see again.

ApocalipstickNow · 18/12/2024 19:05

How about what if we try to educate violent men about everyone’s human rights?

I mean, that’s got to be more doable than brain transplants.

seriously, why are we (general we/society) giving these men a pass?

Swipe left for the next trending thread