CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

Yes, I wonder if that's a thing. There was a trans identified man on here who couldn't quite grasp how being deceived into sex with someone of the wrong sex could absolutely produce feelings of repulsion.

Also, the trans identified boy might well have been confused about exactly how much his actual sex was an issue. Everyone being forced to pretend that men are actually women, or else you'll get fired, beaten, arrested, etc, is bound to have confused a whole host of youngsters.

The trans teen clearly underestimated how visceral the reaction can be to sexual assault, sex by deception and sex with the wrong sex partner.
Though they were also the victim of the non consensual video sharing. What a mess.

Sorry Helle, meant to quote you in that last post.

Did the victim think that this was all just 'bants' and could assess the seriousness of it all? Including threatening to beat up the young woman? And that all was forgotten and they would all go off skating?

Yes it looks like that's exactly what was thought, and the impression the gang gave.

The time line of events seem inconsistent in some ways - the victim of the stabbing seems to have thought that they were going skating with a group where they were known to have deceived the 17 year old male into a sex act.

How I understand it:

Organising the skating trip was the reason for the "trans" teenager joining the Snapchat in the first place as they were invited, where they got into flirty conversation with the guy they deceived and who illegally shared the act on social media and threatened them, Bradley Harris.

Following the sex act, the trans teen apologised to Harris for deceiving him, and still thought they were ok to go to the roller skating party, and they all had an argument on Facebook and other boys pretended to back the "trans" teenager up against Summer Betts-Ramsey, but this was a ruse to set up the attack.

The time line of events seem inconsistent in some ways - the victim of the stabbing seems to have thought that they were going skating with a group where they were known to have deceived the 17 year old male into a sex act. All on the same group chat? Where the deception was exposed and where the victim told a young woman that they were going to beat her up because that young woman called the victim a 'man' on the group chat?

Did the victim think that this was all just 'bants' and could assess the seriousness of it all? Including threatening to beat up the young woman? And that all was forgotten and they would all go off skating?

It is all a horrific mess.

Indeed.
They all show a disgusting lack of respect towards each other.

Secretly filming and distributing a ‘girl’ performing a sex act.
Deceiving a sex partner about your sex
threatening with a knife
Verbal abuse and threats on all sides.

And finally the violent attack.

God, the whole thing is such a mess.

A boy who thinks he's a girl deceiving another boy into sex. That boy thinking it's okay to film the sex act and post it online. All his mates gleefully goading him for not realising. A girl concealing a knife in a care home. And them all utterly determined to brutally beat and stab the trans identified boy.

Should the boy have obtained sex by deception? No, of course not. But my God, every single one of these children has been failed beyond belief.

Knives in care homes, secretly posting sex acts online, quite prepared to go to jail for gleefully stabbing a peer.

What with that and the multiple rapes of girls being swept under the carpet, sometimes it really does feel as though society is irredeemably out of control.

Awful behaviour from everyone which was started by the transwoman committing sexual assault.

So the person who was stabbed had been previously attacked and believed that ‘stealth’ and denial when asked was the answer. There are so many vulnerable children and young people being failed by so called ‘elders’ who take on counselling roles when they are deeply ideological themselves and have no fucking understanding of safeguarding.

Yes, definitely.

From the independent article it would appear that the transwomen thought that he was going to beat up the woman who stabbed (betts-ramsey) him but it was a setup to get him.
Also from the phone conversation with betts-ramsey it appears that she was motivated by both the sexual assault and transphobia

“victim denied it having previously been attacked in the past.”

So the person who was stabbed had been previously attacked and believed that ‘stealth’ and denial when asked was the answer. There are so many vulnerable children and young people being failed by so called ‘elders’ who take on counselling roles when they are deeply ideological themselves and have no fucking understanding of safeguarding.

It's all levels of wrong, and no one party is innocent. Every single party should've been convicted of a crime.

Seems like boy received oral sex from girl, secretly filmed it to boast to his friends, found out girl was actually a boy, completely embarrassed by friends, launches violent assault on male victim to save face and reassert his heterosexuality and masculinity.

As had been said many times sex by deception is dangerous for MtF trans as you potentially face a violent outcome. It doesn't justify the violence, it just acknowledges reality.

What is up with all these kids?

It'll be a complex combination of things.

The main attacker had a care-experienced background, so that may be one factor.

Knife crime, sexual assault, violence, prejudice, mental health issues, 'identity' issues - the risk and reality all of these are apparently prevalent in young people's lives.

After flirting online Harris, who was also part of the group, invited the victim to his home address on 29 January, and she performed oral sex on him. While they were in his bedroom, Harris was contacted by a friend who told him she was “trans”, but the victim denied it having previously been attacked in the past.

During their sexual interaction, she remained unaware that Harris had positioned his phone up while on a Facetime call with another teenage youth, with a video recording later posted on social media.

It was a homosexual assault followed by a homophobic attack.

And also, the boy who was deceived into a sexual act was filming it and sharing it on social media without consent, and threatened the teenager who deceived him at knifepoint. What is up with all these kids?

It was a homosexual assault followed by a homophobic attack.

Two crimes, one of them horrific and joined in by others,

All of it facilitated by the gender beliefs foisted on this generation of barely educated youngsters.

This article in the Independent has a lot of detail.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/transgender-attack-harrow-leisure-centre-old-bailey-b2680201.html

"Various threats were made, with the victim told “ur a man” and she retaliated by threatening to give Betts-Ramsey the “beating her white parents never gave her”. Throughout this encounter, the four teenage boys encouraged the two girls to fight and for the victim to “smash up Summer”.

Ms Heer KC added: “In fact, all of this was a ruse. During this exchange, between 4.35pm and 4.48pm Betts-Ramsey was separately in contact via Facetime with a group whose members included Bradley Harris, Camron Osei, Shiloh Hinds and another teenager.
“The telephone evidence suggests that they were setting the victim up to be attacked in Harrow that evening.”

So if you strip away all the 'gender identity' and obfuscation, this was a homophobic attack.

It sweeps away the lie that transwomen are safer when stealth.

There's more information in this article about the case which unfortunately also refers to the male victim as both a transgender girl and just girl along with using she/her pronouns through the whole article. I wish reporters would stop using ther wrong pronouns as its confusing, so is the way both this and the mail article are using the photos of the young woman who stabbed the victim.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/15/transgender-girl-stabbed-by-snapchat-gang-court-hears/

Im not sure how old the person who was sexually assaulted was?

Looking at reports at the time and now. Summer Betts-Ramsey at 19 years old was the only one named when they were first charged early last year, as the others were all too young. The boy who was sexually assaulted by deception and did the filming and threatened the stabbing victim with a knife was one of them. He appears to be Bradley Harris who was 17 at the time.

I think they have all been named now except for the youngest boy and girl who are still under 18.

So many compounding layers of wrongs in this case. From the sexual assault to the filming to the stabbing.

The language is really confusing. Why are they calling an adult man, transgender girl?

Im not sure how old the person who was sexually assaulted was?

The attack was horrific.

Thanks @Hoardasurass

It should do, but it's very rarely used in that way in practice.