CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

The many organisations set up to support LGBT youth should be required to inform and educate young people on all the risks and implications - moral, legal, and the dangers, of sex by deception.

Yes I wondered if that comment means the MTF is POC.

Also, that "beating your white parents never gave you" comment? There's a racial prejudice dynamic in this mess as well.

Secretly filming and distributing a ‘girl’ performing a sex act.

I'd like to highlight the filmer's misogyny in thinking it's OK to film someone who he perceived to be female and put the footage online.

It also strikes me as a very one-sided encounter. Obviously, the fellator had his reasons for keeping it that way, but a decent man would want to reciprocate. This again is an aspect of misogyny: that it's ok for women to give men head and get nothing back.

ETA: the fellator might have two reasons: not wanting his victim to see or feel his genitals being the obvious one, and a desire to live up to his misogynist idea that women exist to service men à la Andrea Long Chu's "open mouth expectant asshole, and dead dead eyes".

You have to wonder about whether or not sex by deception is even raised as an issue in RSE classes. When they are brainwashing children into believing they can change “gender”, do they bother to point out that if you hide the fact of your actual sex to a sexual partner you are committing a sexual assault? I bet they don’t. I can imagine cases like this will become more common as this generation reaches adulthood having been taught that boundaries are bigotry and that their perception of themselves is all that matters.

I was specifically referring to the planned attack where the trans identified male was stabbed.

I completely agree that not wanting somebody of the same sex performing a sex act on you if you aren't gay isn't homophobic.

Yes, I'm now seeing media outlets furiously deleting any comments making reference to the illegality of sex by deception, and the left-leaning outlets really minimising that part of the story.

Trust in the media is raised yet again.

It isn't homophobic to not want somebody of the same sex performing a sex act on you if you aren't gay. And if they do, and lie about what sex they are, it also isn't homophobic to be pissed off about it.

Maybe even the more general point of the inadvisability of shaping our societies around the compulsory acceptance of blatant lies.

I wouldn’t take well to being tricked into sex with a woman, but I wouldn’t feel threatened. More that as a straight so far woman, I’d have to process whether I’d wanted to experiment or not.

I can’t imagine how a lesbian discovering her sex partner was a transwoman would feel- the revulsion but also the fear of bloody men. As in, the inevitable vulnerability that she wouldn’t have been aware she was exposing herself to.

I think @Datun is right, and this may be helpful in raising the issue of sex by deception and ‘TWAW full stop’- not so far as having sex with a straight bloke!

The media might be doing it, but there won't be many people reading it who agree.

Heterosexual men don't take kindly to being tricked into having sex with other men.

No. Otherwise there's almost a tacit implication that people should accept sex by deception.

Hm. Comments on the DM article seemed pretty cognisant of all the issues involved.

I agree. I think, as in so many things, honesty is the best policy.

Not saying you are doing that, but the media and courts shouldn't be downplaying that element.

It does demonstrate the danger of tw trying to go stealth. If they want a sexual relationship they have a choice of brief hook-ups, then ghosting their partner, or violent reactions like this one at worst or painful break-ups possibly with a police report at best if they try for a longer relationship. Perhaps they dream that, once he's got to know them, love will conquer all?

That doesn't justify sexual assault by deception, just like the filming and sharing on social media and the threats and premeditation and eventual gang violence and horrific attack wasn't justified. None of this is justified and people shouldn't be encouraged to believe it's ok to lie to people about your sex.

Were all the young people involved in the care system?

It does demonstrate the danger of tw trying to go stealth. If they want a sexual relationship they have a choice of brief hook-ups, then ghosting their partner, or violent reactions like this one at worst or painful break-ups possibly with a police report at best if they try for a longer relationship. Perhaps they dream that, once he's got to know them, love will conquer all?

Poor kid. The punishment definitely does not fit the crime. This could so easily have been a murder case. They were all lucky. Although it's possibly the only bit of luck these young people may have had in their lives. Regardless, I suspect the judge will throw the book at them.

It is a truly horrible, violent case.

At the root of it all is lies - lies that it is possible to change sex and that those who wish to be the opposite sex just have to decide to be and everyone else must and will validate that lie and accept the person has changed sex. The lie that declaration of actual sex is not necessary because TWAW, TMAM if they say so.

This is the tragic result of those lies.

All these lies need to stop, lies to children and young people, lies to adults otherwise more cases like this will happen and surely no-one wants that?

Obviously (as expected) a lot of media outlets are positioning this as a transphobic crime and minimising the sex by deception element. It appears that the original twitter outrage was similar.

Either people minimise the sex by deception to create a one-sided argument or people believe that it is acceptable.

I also wonder how society has moved from the decades-ago scandal of children in care being thrown out at 16 and left to negotiate the system, to this case where a young woman of 19, too old for most sanctions, is still in care.

Exactly. "It's a blow job, whats the difference in a girl doing it, or a male identifying as one?" But that's not how most people think and society pretending that they do is a recipe for trouble.

Well, if you believe that people are only interested in sex with how someone 'looks' versus the entire package including knowing what sex category the body the person you are about to have sex with is, you can dismiss it as we have repeatedly seen. That the person's sex is irrelevant. All that matters is an attractive body with orifices or appendages for producing sensation.

You (general) can philosophise the need to know what sex someone is away with all the queer theory and post modernism you can want.

Some people seem to have struggled to understand that sex by deception is sexual assault.

Oh I see. That is shit.

The sad thing is as some trans posters on this thread have admitted that they actively encourage young trans people to lie and embark on sexual relationships by deception, it's a recipe for disaster