To think that 'Female' shouldn't be the 4th option in a list of 5 when being asked about gender?

I just completed a survey from my GP which only had the options:
Male
Female
Gender neutral.

I used the free text box to tell them that I thought it was very concerning that actual qualified medical professionals thought they were treating patients who weren't male or female.

Complain!!

https://www.dominos.co.uk/contact/form

I did something similar at work last week.

I looked at the settings on one of the systems that we use to see what info they had about me.
It correctly had my sex as female and the gender identity field was blank. I decided to fill it in and chose "prefer to self describe." I was then able to type into the preferred pronouns box so put "I don't have a gender identity. Please use sex based pronouns."

I don't know if anyone will notice but it gave me a bit of quiet satisfaction.

@JRorBobby I get annoyed when it's always male first and then female. So that would REALLY piss me off!

"Ladies and gentlemen."

Good on you for trying and the changes that were made, despite not hearing back on your main request. It’s hard to speak out. I wish I could. It’s mad that this exclusion of many employees is under the guise of being inclusive.

Presumably they think that basement dwellers are more likely to order pizza than women?
Dominoes are terrible pizzas anyway.

Presumably so.

Easily done, right? You wake up pretty sure you know yourself and before you realise it, you've declared yourself agender, because it was first on the list of the 72 genders.

Handily, being agender effectively means the same thing as "I don't believe I have a gender identity".... so.... it turns out you do have a gender. You have an agender gender.

After wondering for just a few seconds how that might work, you sit back with relief at how simple it all is in the end. All you needed to do was not overthink this, tick the first option and you're sorted.

(Here's your flag ⬇️)

So if they put 'Female' first, randomly, some respondents will say they are female just because it's the first answer??

There's overthinking, there's underthinking, and there's just plain thinking

Good point!

Here's Harry Enfield's timely reminder that our brains won't cope with that 🙃

Stop thinking, wims!

Hope you make a complaint to them. If anything female should come first as the majority (51%) of us are indeed female.

Yep, that could work. It's a kind of "the horse has already bolted" solution.

However, it has huge risk because as soon as the word "gender" gets any other word stuck onto it, we're back to a muddle e.g. the protected characteristic of "gender reassignment" or the concept of an internal soul that is gender-aligned ("gender identity").

There's no perfect answer but my personal preference is to bring back the simplicity of the word sex in law and leave "gender" to the genderists. I appreciate it's not a great solution for any feminists who want to talk about the social construct of gender in society but I also think that discussion has been hijacked to a point where it's only clear if people talk about sex-based stereotypes instead of "gender stereotypes" etc. But perhaps that's easy for me to say, given I'm not on the frontline of feminism.

Many surveys randomise the order otherwise there is a heavy bias towards the first answer. You are probably way over thinking this. Non of this stuff is compulsory

A different solution to the Gender/Sex issue is suggested by a Bill proposed by some Republicans in the US, the 'Defining Male and Female Act of 2024'.

It suggests officially conflating the two terms, which recognises the widespread conflation that goes on anyway - a lot of people use the word 'gender' as a polite synonym for sex, they don't mean it as in gender-woo.

(4) ‘gender’, when used alone to refer to males, females, or the natural differences between males and females—
‘‘(A) shall be considered a synonym for sex; and
‘‘(B) shall not be considered a synonym or short-hand expression for gender identity, experienced gender, gender expression, or gender role.
Republicans introduce bill to define ‘male’ and ‘female’ based on biological differences (US) | Mumsnet

It doesn't get around the confusion still present in terms like 'gender expression', but it would mean that tick-boxes on forms like this could only have two choices, M or F, whether the heading was 'sex' or 'gender', as those two words 'when used alone' would legally mean exactly the same thing.

At work, I refuse to answer anything that asks for my gender, it is their loss because the data they are hoping to get will not be accurate. It’s the assumption that we all have a gender, or those who still think that it’s just another word for sex that need to wake up.

Me too. I had previously asked the head of EDI to change how these questions are asked on the forms where this comes up.

I had suggested that they could ask for sex recorded at birth first, then to ask for "gender identity (if applicable)", making sure to include an N/A option.

Unfortunately I didn't receive a response to my suggestion, despite the fact that we had had a positive meeting about why it's not appropriate for this belief to be positioned as fact. It was clear that she had outsourced all thinking on this, believing that the LGBT network understood it better than her. She told me it was important to remember how marginalised trans people were.

One positive outcome did result from my discussions, where they updated a company policy to correctly explain the protected characteristics in the EA and to remove the previous conflation of sex, sexual orientation and gender reassignment. Unfortunately the mandatory and voluntary training which includes gender identity as fact still continues. As does the collection of staff diversity data in which gender identity supersedes sex. And mine is still empty.

Like many other posters, I make a comment if possible that my sex is female and I don’t have a gender identity. The more of us do that has surely got to be picked up at some point. At work, I refuse to answer anything that asks for my gender, it is their loss because the data they are hoping to get will not be accurate. It’s the assumption that we all have a gender, or those who still think that it’s just another word for sex that need to wake up.

I could 'identify' with about three of the labels, but they are just aspects of me and were incorporated into my development from gender-confused child [if gender dysphoria exists, I had it!] to adult human female lesbian.

Exactly this. I'm a straight adult woman but I can still picture myself as a teenager, playing a card game on my friend's bedroom floor and realising that I had a massive urge to lean across and kiss her. I didn't do it but I remember feeling really confused for ages afterwards.
Trying to make sense of yourself through adolescence, of your place in the world, is difficult. Especially as feelings get tangled up while people figure out how to handle the previous "simplicity" of friendship with a new emerging awareness of sexual feelings. The belief that we all have a gender identity fits in pretty neatly as an explanation, especially when doctors and other trusted adults are telling us about the importance of it all.

After I posted my pizza comment, I had to laugh at myself. Yes, I managed to present my objective response (in the previous post) but my sarcastic side was clearly itching to get out 🙃 For a bit of equal opportunities humour, to balance things out, here's Loretta helping us to understand women's rights at a time while elsewhere in the film, Brian was trying to come to terms with his status as the son of god:

As for the name, I think you're right that it needs to be Italian @MarieDeGournay . Perhaps "Il Spettro" (The Spectrum, according to Google translate).

I do this, except I say "I don't believe in the gender ideology cult "

I want a 'My sex is female and gender is a societal construct' option.

Not overreacting- that would give me the rage too. And why always male first not female anyway (obviously I know why, the patriarchy). The older I get the ragier I get about this.

If I get 'prefer to self-describe' I always put 'no gender. SEX is female'.

Thanks for your very interesting post, BonfireLady, some really good points about how gender ideology has gained traction..

There are people for whom this list will make absolute sense. Something will "click" with them and they'll recognise where they map onto it and how it helps them make sense of who they are.
On the other thread where this was discussed, I admitted that I could 'identify' with about three of the labels, but they are just aspects of me and were incorporated into my development from gender-confused child [if gender dysphoria exists, I had it!] to adult human female lesbian.

If I'd paused and pursued any one of them as 'my identity' I wouldn't be this settled me, and I'd probably be angsting today about next week's hair colour and pronouns at work..🙄

Love the pizza idea to replace the Quattro Stagioni!
What's the Italian for '72 Genders?' [this is FWR: somebody always knows everything]😄

As for why Dominos needs it, I'd like to think their analytics teams are pulling together all this data, of which genders order which pizzas, and passing them to the product management teams who are dreaming up the latest new pizza options.

Perhaps a new pizza called the Spectrum will take over from the 4 seasons, with its gradual fade from the manliness of chillis, jalapenos and spicy meat on one side through the gradual thinning out of these toppings as we move across the pizza and they are replaced by increasing amounts of the light feminity of colourful peppers and pinenuts, all dotted as jewels. Topped off with (affirming) mozzarella across all of it.

Looking at the list, every gender on it would map to this new offering. It'll be the pizza sensation of the decade. I hope someone from Dominos is reading this and gets started on it.

That's a great list.

As much as I want to laugh at it, my objective side kicks in because I'm imagining how gender identity believers see it. There are people for whom this list will make absolute sense. Something will "click" with them and they'll recognise where they map onto it and how it helps them make sense of who they are.

It's not the belief itself that's gone wrong. Humans look for meaning in life. Forming and having beliefs is a natural part of that. What's wrong is how it's indulged without question.

From the ridiculous sexism of "female" being 4th on a list of options, to the options themselves being presented as fact (sex is fact, "gender" is a word to describe sex-based cultural stereotypes and "gender identity" is a belief that we all have an individual, internalised version of gender as a core part of who we are)... to the serious side of what happens when this belief is forced onto society at scale:

• children taught in schools that it's important to recognise and affirm people's gender identity. That it's unkind not to do so. That someone's gender identity is more important than their sex.
• medicalisation to "affirm" people's bodies to match their "gender". Most people who enter the "affirming care" pathway are under 25. Most who remain on it will keep taking the next step in their belief that this is the best way to help them feel settled with their body. The lack of medical evidence for these irrerversible, sometimes life-limiting interventions is apparently not a problem. Apparently it's a human right that they should be provided.
• women's sports are colonised, with medals and records taken, plus safety (in contact sports) out of the window. They're not colonised by the vulnerable people for whom this list makes sense but by those who rely on the belief and support of these people.
• ditto re the colonisation of other women's spaces and services
• we all watch on as "women's" sex crimes go through the roof, news organisations afraid of what will happen if they don't uphold the belief that we all have a gender identity and actually report the sex of the offender
• women are gaslit into believing that they are unkind if they don't affirm the identity of transwomen. Sometimes it's women doing the gaslighting, sometimes it's abusive partners, sometimes it's progressive men who pat themselves on the back for being so "inclusive".
• parents are gaslit into believing their children will kill themselves if they don't have access to the medicalised pathway that will change their bodies both inside (their endocrine system) and outside (secondary sex characteristics removed and/or synthetically copied) forever.

At a societal level, this belief has been pushed onto us in a way that we haven't seen since puritanism and the centuries that followed, where Christianity gradually morphed from being accepted as the only "truth" to being something that it's OK not to believe in. Christianity is still having to grapple with those who use others' belief in god for their own gains (Justin Welby's recent poor handling of a yet another scandal being a good example) but it's now perfectly acceptable for someone to say that they don't believe it's possible for a virgin to give birth, or in any other tenets of the belief. Nobody gets killed (or death threats) or cast out of society (lose their job) for saying this.

One day we'll be free to say we don't believe that everyone has a gender identity and that we don't accept it being forced onto us.

It annoys me not nearly as much as being asked my gender. I don't have a gender I have a sex.

This ⬆️

Yes c'mon shufflebumnessie l can't get worked up about this until I see the options in your list because , eg , if it were:

Male
Goddess
Ladyship (your)
Female
TERF

then, great, obviously.