Safeguarding trans issues

Oh @Hamiltonfan that must be so difficult to watch. There is lots of help & support for your friend, even if she can't keep the medicalising transactivist vultures away from her son.

I'm sorry your thread, asking for help, has been derailed by a self-centred and insensitive poster, who is cloth-eared in engaging in the kind of supportive conversation & advice you're seeking.

I hope you can save the relevant & useful parts of this thread, and the resources various posters have suggested.

Actually, thank you for answering my question. I'm more than happy to engage in productive, respectful dialogue.

Of those three people I've met with a presentation of classic transexuality, one is a trans woman and the other two are trans men.

I wasn't just present in their lives at one point, I still am, and these are my friends. Of course I've listened to their lived experiences, with compassion and respect.

I've had many productive, friendly conversations with them. I'll be spending my NYE with one of them and his fiancée. I guess I should hand in my terf card.

And through the many conversations I've had with them, which they initiated rather than me, they were very clear that someone with autism, or other deep-seated psychiatric issues, would never be a classic example of transexuality, and certainly not a candidate for transition related medical procedures.

You do apparently claim to have a classic presentation as well, but also apparently don't show much regard for safeguarding, which, to me, stands in contrast with what my friends think.

You don't really address the special circumstances in this case, autism and other psychiatric problems, but rather just speak about your own experience. This really isn't of much help to OP or the child she is talking about. I really don't understand why you'd do that, though I'm open to hear your arguments.

allowed her to successfully address her dysphoria and enter adult society not only with a gender-congruent presentation, but one that other people find quite attractive.

This sort of statement, along with the bet on who could bed you in Uni, do sound a bit unreal.

It's the sheer hostility and incredulity toward the notion of a congruent and aesthetically pleasing outcome that I find so especially fascinating and would love to unpack further

Then start your own thread @ButterflyHatched and stop derailing a thread started to ask for support on a specific real life situation.

@ButterflyHatched my lived experience is that if I'm going to get undressed in a changing room, or use a public lavatory, or be in a place where I expect women to be by ourselves, then I don't expect to have a male born person in with me.
Does that matter?

It's the sheer hostility and incredulity toward the notion of a congruent and aesthetically pleasing outcome that I find so especially fascinating and would love to unpack further.

Feel free to 'unpack it' by starting a thread of your own and stop intruding on this one.

When all else fails, what is left other than 'lalala I don't believe you'?

Embarrassing. You're denying other people's lived experiences because you either cannot comprehend them being possible, or you refuse to do so.

It's chilling to see it happening on a feminist board.

These responses are incredibly revealing as well. The way the tone suddenly shifts; the sheer scandalous outrageousness of a trans woman talking about how the treatment that she had in childhood (plus some good luck) allowed her to successfully address her dysphoria and enter adult society not only with a gender-congruent presentation, but one that other people find quite attractive.

It's the sheer hostility and incredulity toward the notion of a congruent and aesthetically pleasing outcome that I find so especially fascinating and would love to unpack further.

It's something to do with a constellation of data points I think.

Join the queue.

I think none of us will be getting an answer, though.

I'm still waiting for @ButterflyHatched to tell me how he lives as a woman. No one I have asked can answer the question.

Stop projecting your own backstory all over other people’s children.

👏👏👏Well said @ChaChaChooey

There is blatant hijacking and appropriation of other people's experiences all over these threads.

Sorry to read the update @Hamiltonfan I can barely imagine how hard it must be for your friend. I hope she does get in touch with one of the organisations recommended, I would think they have lots of experience of what she’s going through, including with older teenagers.

No, the rate of people going from PBs to CSHs doesn't indicate that it was the right decision for them all. It shows that using PBs makes the path to CSHs a pretty much foregone conclusion. PBs don't give children time to think, they do the opposite. They ensure that the child does not have any real chance to grow out of their dysphoria and go on to have a normal adult life.

No child should have their healthy puberty blocked.

The only children for whom going through puberty is going to be more damaging than not going through it are the ones whose (almost certainly abusive) parents allowed them to believe they were the opposite sex at a very young age and who are consequently already psychologically damaged beyond repair.

At 16 it does become the child's choice though.

I wish this clownery could take place somewhere else rather than a thread where real help is being asked for.
This. Not typically female behaviour to try and make everything about oneself, either.

I've been knee deep in LGBTQWYZ for decades. I've seen many things.

I've seen the classical presentation of transexuality three times, out of many hundreds of claims.

None of those three would ever suggest a young boy with autism to be a likely "candidate".

I think ButterflyHatched might not be a candidate either, but tries hard to look like it because it'd might make him/her/zim look somehow legitimate.

I can't take him/her/zim seriously after he/she / zir claimed there was a bet on who could bed him/her/zer in college, though.

I wish this clownery could take place somewhere else rather than a thread where real help is being asked for.

I really don't get this at all.

I could be absolutely obsessed with all things French and associated with France. I could change my name to a French variant, only listen to French music, only watch French films and TV, only eat authentic French cuisine with snails as a side order every time, only ever wear a black and white striped jumper and a beret, speak French as much as possible, with a French accent, specifically seek French friends online or in person, paint my house a Tricolore and wholeheartedly embrace every French stereotype I could possibly think of.

Everybody would know that I was a fully committed Francophile - and all power to me... but I would still actually be British. I couldn't get my birth certificate changed to say that I was born to French parents (mine were British) in Marseille (nope, town in the English Midlands).

Why would I even need to seek to do that, though, even if I could? And what would it actually achieve or make any different? I've yet to hear any convincing argument (or actually any attempt at one at all) as to how being trans is anything but embracing stereotypes of the opposite sex. What you biologically ARE is immutable; with that in mind, what you choose to DO (assuming your body will allow you to and you don't seek to remove rights from people who actually are the other sex) is entirely your free choice, regardless of whether other people expect you to do it or not.

So, if you're a man who likes to consider yourself as a 'woman', you clearly can't use women's toilets or changing rooms, as those are set aside for women only and you would be denying them their rights if you sought to muscle in and use them as well; but if you want to buy and wear bras and makeup, bake cupcakes, knit doilies, carry a glittery handbag, sing along defiantly to Taylor Swift, drive a pink Micra or whatever other things you personally stereotype as 'for women', absolutely nobody at all is stopping you. Just as women may choose not to participate in any of those, for whatever reason; it's all good.

Fingers crossed the new paediatric services are following the Cass Review - if so, anything co morbid to the cross sex identity should be ruled out first, to avoid what Cass called ‘Diagnostic Overshadowing’.

Hopefully the reorganisation of 18-25 services to be more in line with the new paediatric service rather than the Adult Pathway conveyor belt by the time your friend’s son ages out of the children’s version.

If no differential diagnosis is explored your friend can report the service to NHSE and Cass, her MP and anyone else we can find who will listen to her.

No, YOU really can’t see it.

You think this current day teenager, with a completely different presentation to the historical one you constantly wang on about is exactly the same as you and should receive the same drastic medical and surgical interventions as you, despite describing your own health problems as a ‘Sword of Damocles’ and without any of the careful assessments or long term psychotherapeutic input that were part of the gender services 20 years ago. Anyone who concluded they were trans before the advent of the smart phone had an entirely different experience to the kids of today.

Stop projecting your own backstory all over other people’s children.

I'm also still waiting on your explanation as to how your female (lesbian? butch?) friends were perceived as having been born male, in your company, while you, observed as male at birth, did not get perceived as male.

I'm also a lesbian, very definitely not feminine, and still unable to get kicked out of a female loo. What am I missing?

But that's just a secondary question, I'd appreciate comment on my previous post.

When I was a persistently gender dysphoric but not depressed,

But isn't gender dysphoria supposed to cause depression and inability to function properly, hence necessitating the major intervention that transitioning is?

not autistic

Wouldn't you recognise being autistic lends itself to a distorted perception of reality, sex roles and self identification?

How do you feel about the version of the DSM that excluded those suffering from more extreme forms of schizophrenia from a gender dysphoria diagnosis being "superceded" by a version which did not?

Is an undisturbed sense of self and perception of reality necessary for a gender dysphoria diagnosis, in your opinion?

You really can't see it, can you?

You'd be able to if you understood what it was like for us. The rate of people going on from PB's to CSH is an indication of how good the initial filtering/diagnostic process is. It's a feature - the people prescribed PB's are the ones who have persistent acute gender dysphoria and want CSH. They get PB's as a concessionary gatekeeping measure just in case they do change their minds. A tiny fraction do. The rest are the same kids who have been forced to wait to start CSH - but at least they haven't been forced to also accept the changes they'll spend the next decade trying to undo.

Not giving an anorexic teen an ozempic prescription is DENYING THEM BODILY AUTONOMY YOU BIGOT!

Well, it would be, according to trans logic.

It's a sad and depressing story IMO, gender dysphoria should be treated as a mental disorder along the lines of body dysmorphia and i don't understand for one minute why it's not. When did it become acceptable for doctors to cut off healthy, functioning parts of their patients bodies?

Indeed, @Gem359 We don’t put those children suffering from anorexia on Ozempic.

Which is why it was only available as a treatment after an initial multi-stage assessment process and with ongoing monitoring.

If that wasn't so tragic, it'd be laughable. 30 minutes to an hour on the phone, followed by a prescription and "There you go," is nothing like what you assert.

What about detransitioners? Keira Bell, for example? What about the complete lack of follow up records, highlighted in the Cass Report?

You're taking complete rubbish.