Safeguarding trans issues

I'm still waiting for @ButterflyHatched to tell me how he lives as a woman. No one I have asked can answer the question.

Yes, that is the most simple solution - in the same way that dealing with prejudice within a social group can be 'solved' by banning its victims from joining.

I like to hope we can do better

So let's get this straight.

The puberty blockers route harms boys who would otherwise go on to desist in their trans identification.

It harms those who will persist but would have wanted to retain as adults a sexually mature functioning penis. Which we are told the majority of transwomen do.

It harms those who will persist and will want bottom surgery because it reduces their surgical options to worse ones.

Who is it supposed to be good for again? All in the hope of being able to pretend better to be a biological female, when at the same time you're claiming being biologically female has nothing to do with being a woman.

Or worse, in the aim of being whatever you personally happen to consider physically attractive - a notoriously moving target from person to person, culture to culture. And we don't generally agree with other cosmetic surgeries for kids just because they consider themselves ugly. They're not even allowed to get tattoos.

Yes, that is the most simple solution - in the same way that dealing with prejudice within a social group can be 'solved' by banning its victims from joining.

I like to hope we can do better

The whole point of being a parent is to guide your child away from pain and suffering.

If you want to go down that path, do it as an adult, when you have the cognitive whereabouts to make those lifelong decisions (though plenty of adults detransition too)

But as parents we want to protect our kids.

What if I would have 'supported ' my daughter like you say to? Allowed her to change her name, took her to the Dr's, started her on the journey to transition socially or medically?

How would that look now when naturally, without any intervention, she has done a complete 180 back to her 'normal self' and has absolutely zero interest in anything 'boy presenting'

Do you think she would have been able to do that if all thw pressure from outside trans affirming agencies were there?

You keep saying about helping the trans kids, well what about helping the autistic kids, helping the kids with sexual trauma who are rejecting their bodies due to abuse (and mistake trauma body dysphoria for gender dysphoria) What about helping the lesbian kids who don't fit into female gender stereotypes so think they might be a boy instead of gay? What about the kids who just feel out of place (which is most bloody teens!) Who are emotionally abused at home who look for a group to fit into and are influenced online?

How about protecting THOSE kids?

The most simple solution is to ban all medical and social transition until adult hood.

If a CHILD still wants to travel that path in adulthood they can.

And if they have developed physically in that body then that's just what they have to deal with as part of their journey because I would rather every child be protected from unnecessary medical intervention than can affect their bones, fertility and mental state than the tiny, tiny percentage of trana people that transition for a lifetime. (And most do not have surgical intervention)

The world does not revolve around trans people, they ate NOT more important than any other person, than any other child and if there is a risk of physical and mental damage to children who are sucked into the ideology for any of the reasons above then that is good enough reason to put a stop to it all until the person is a CONSENTING ADULT.

Girat principle of medicine : Do no harm.

I'm not.

I think they should be allowed to choose, though - while being spared the mountains of politicised bullshit that have coalesced into tight points of contention around what was already the difficult and painful mire that is childhood gender incongruence.

So why do you seem to be so keen that other people travel that much, much harder road?

I am geometrically incongruent as there is no other object that is exactly the same shape and size as me. I am also psychologically incongruent as my actual self doesn't match my ideal self. Somehow I manage.

I hope that's the end of the story for your child.

What a blessing it would be to not experience crushing, persistent gender dysphoria throughout childhood and into adulthood; for it to just go away one day. To discover that you actually don't need any treatment and can crack on with your life safe in the knowledge that you are no longer the target of the group of people dedicating their lives to removing your rights and protection from discrimination alongside your future treatment prospects.

Some children aren't so lucky. Please cherish your child having been able to take the easy road - the other one is much, much harder.

Thank you. She has been communicating as well as anyone can with him for ages on this matter. He has long hair, she lets him wear girls clothes, but cannot bring herself to call him she/her. That's what has been picked up on and has triggered the referral. It was actually the MH team possibly in conjunction with school although that is not confirmed. He wants puberty blockers and hormonal treatment. He is now 16. But he is autistic and has other ND traits. Such a sad situation. He would be lost without her. She is his only advocate in life x

I'd advise her to choose the path least likely to upset and alienate the child that she is an amazing mum to, and who is earnestly trying to communicate with her.

Having been in that position as a trans child desperately trying to muster up the courage to talk to my mum, I can pretty confidently say that any illusions as to the idea of transition being about 'fitting in' will very, very swiftly dissolve in contact with the stark reality of what it is actually like to be subject to transphobia on a daily basis in society while experiencing persistent gender dysphoria.

Kids are astonishingly unkind to anyone who gives them the slightest excuse.

I would not direct her toward an organisation that is well known to have members who talk wistfully about abuse being something that children will thank their parents for one day.

When all else fails, what is left other than 'lalala I don't believe you'?

Embarrassing. You're denying other people's lived experiences because you either cannot comprehend them being possible, or you refuse to do so.

It's chilling to see it happening on a feminist board.

These responses are incredibly revealing as well. The way the tone suddenly shifts; the sheer scandalous outrageousness of a trans woman talking about how the treatment that she had in childhood (plus some good luck) allowed her to successfully address her dysphoria and enter adult society not only with a gender-congruent presentation, but one that other people find quite attractive.

It's the sheer hostility and incredulity toward the notion of a congruent and aesthetically pleasing outcome that I find so especially fascinating and would love to unpack further.

I hope your True Trans mates aren't the turkeys voting for Christmas. I've seen a fair bit of hostility from older trans people who were denied Blockers and feel threatened by our existence, as if we invalidate them somehow. Wish it didn't happen but people are people and can get quite jealous or develop unhealthy coping strategies.

Anyway, sorry for the derail - I hope the OP's friend gets a good answer that helps their kid have a good life.

Actually, thank you for answering my question. I'm more than happy to engage in productive, respectful dialogue.

Of those three people I've met with a presentation of classic transexuality, one is a trans woman and the other two are trans men.

I wasn't just present in their lives at one point, I still am, and these are my friends. Of course I've listened to their lived experiences, with compassion and respect.

I've had many productive, friendly conversations with them. I'll be spending my NYE with one of them and his fiancée. I guess I should hand in my terf card.

And through the many conversations I've had with them, which they initiated rather than me, they were very clear that someone with autism, or other deep-seated psychiatric issues, would never be a classic example of transexuality, and certainly not a candidate for transition related medical procedures.

You do apparently claim to have a classic presentation as well, but also apparently don't show much regard for safeguarding, which, to me, stands in contrast with what my friends think.

You don't really address the special circumstances in this case, autism and other psychiatric problems, but rather just speak about your own experience. This really isn't of much help to OP or the child she is talking about. I really don't understand why you'd do that, though I'm open to hear your arguments.

allowed her to successfully address her dysphoria and enter adult society not only with a gender-congruent presentation, but one that other people find quite attractive.

This sort of statement, along with the bet on who could bed you in Uni, do sound a bit unreal.

It's the sheer hostility and incredulity toward the notion of a congruent and aesthetically pleasing outcome that I find so especially fascinating and would love to unpack further

Then start your own thread @ButterflyHatched and stop derailing a thread started to ask for support on a specific real life situation.