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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Puberty Suppressing Hormones, House of Commons, Wes Streeting taking a firm and intelligent stand

140 replies

ScrollingLeaves · 11/12/2024 14:49

Wes Streeting is doing a good job of calmly holding his own in Parliament on this issue of puberty blockers being banned pending a trial.

Some MPs have been standing up and speaking about ‘trans kids’ and suicide and so on, and how young people currently taking puberty blockers will source drugs from other sources as they will be left so desperate. Certain MPs have shown no inkling of the wider issues concerning gender dysphoria among troubled young people.

WS read out report saying that suicide figures of trans people were skewed, and reporting of it dangerous.

Others have seemed to be more aware. Sir John Hayes has brought up those who were vilified for whistleblowing such as Kathleen Stock, the lives ruined by the Tavistock and how it could have happened? WS has just paid tribute to Hannah Barnes. Women’s concerns.

“I am very disappointed in behalf of our trans children….” Vikki Slade. She says there is no information on suicides for those on a gender waiting list. WS says all child deaths are monitored and reviewed.

Jim Allister asking about parental consent and age for the puberty blocker trial. WS ethical concerns are being taken very seriously.

“A breach of young people’s human rights” Carla Denyer (Green).

Robin Swann County Antrim asking about closing access to puberty blockers through loopholes.

Anyway, it is worth hearing WS. It seems to be the first time someone from Labour, who is allowed to speak, has seemed to have a depth of understanding about gender issues. He also speaks lucidly and with nuance.

I don’t know if he is just very clever, but in the end slippery, or actually someone who will make a difference for the better but was impressed.

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WarriorN · 22/12/2024 14:34

Thanks - says prescribed in October. That's well within the ban dates

Britinme · 22/12/2024 13:55

Article in today's Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/22/nhs-faces-high-court-legal-fight-over-cross-sex-hormones/

Sorry - don't know how to put it on archive. The article begins:

A father is bringing legal action against the NHS after his 16-year old was given cross-sex hormones despite official guidance against their use.._
The Brighton man is seeking a judicial review in the High Court of the decision by his local GP to prescribe the drugs to his teenaged son for gender dysphoria.

BonfireLady · 22/12/2024 11:30

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 10:48

And she says she's cis here

But also pan.

In 2020.... Interesting.

Rowan Knox's recent life journey springs to mind.

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 10:48

And she says she's cis here

But also pan.

Puberty Suppressing Hormones, House of Commons, Wes Streeting taking a firm  and intelligent stand
WarriorN · 22/12/2024 10:47

Ah, is she?

Not sure how tho. It's she / her on her Twitter. Says she Bi.

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 10:45

It's the grift innit.

SinnerBoy · 22/12/2024 10:45

31 trans days in the NHS calendar is ridiculous, it's more than one a fortnight. It seems like a complete waste of time and resources and is vastly out of proportion to the number of trans people.

Cailleach1 · 22/12/2024 10:32

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 08:44

Carla is apparently non binary. 🙄

Ah, is she?

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 08:44

Carla is apparently non binary. 🙄

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 08:44

Green light blog re Sian and Carla and their cringeworthy comments.

Also has a link to the debate embedded for anyone who wants to revisit/ catch up

thegreenlight.blog/2024/12/21/sian-berry-carla-denyer-humiliated-in-parliament-over-their-continued-opposition-to-ban-puberty-blocker-for-children/

Need to point out that the other co leader (Adrian) and the only other green mp (Ellie) have been extremely quiet on all this. I believe they do get it but are too scared of their own party to speak out.

It's a massive shame as Adrian in particular is running some good campaigns around the nhs etc.

JeremiahBullfrog · 22/12/2024 08:21

The thing is if you give these drugs to stop early onset puberty you presumably stop doing it by the time the child reaches eleven or twelve. Whereas for gender dysphoria they're stuck with them till they're eighteen and deemed old enough for cross-sex hormones and surgery.

Keeping a nine-year-old looking like a normal nine-year-old is obviously a humane thing to do. Stunting a sixteen-year-old's development so they still resemble a prepubescent child, to a large extent mentally as well as physically, is such a horrifically twisted image that it's hard to see how anyone could possibly think it OK, no matter what the end goal.

(With some imagination, though, one can work out what's going on - the supporters of puberty blockers don't think about what it actually means. They only imagine the distressed teenager without "treatment", on one hand, and the beautiful passing adult trans person on the other. The adolescent trapped in an artificially extended childhood is conveniently excluded from their minds.)

WarriorN · 22/12/2024 07:40

Would that be in Hansard?

Sounds like some cross checking would be worth doing

UtopiaPlanitia · 22/12/2024 02:47

Thanks for the article link Cake.

Hmmmm, I wonder how many of the complaining Labour MPs took advantage of the opportunity to attend the meeting organised with Dr Cass to explain PB etc to them...? 😏

lcakethereforeIam · 21/12/2024 20:21

Article in the Telegraph, Labour fuckwits

https://archive.ph/ThU4G

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/12/21/wes-streeting-facing-backlash-labour-mps-puberty-blockers/

Good that the Equalities Minister (I forget who that is) is being led by Streeting. It's not clear from the article if the meeting proposed by Dr Cass has taken place yet. I hope the likes of Kate Osborne will (or have) take the opportunity to educate themselves. It's noticeable that Dr Cass will stand up for her work, is prepared to meet with doubters and answer questions. She doesn't just fire off a letter, a one sided correspondence.

borntobequiet · 21/12/2024 15:20

International Pronouns Day?

What utter tosh.

IDareSay · 21/12/2024 12:10

lcakethereforeIam · 21/12/2024 11:53

I know this is a little off thread, but I saw this article and I wanted to post it

https://archive.ph/ZYjHE

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/21/gender-fluid-appreciation-trans-parents-day-nhs-calendar/

I hate to think how much is going on pins and lanyards, or how the staff can stand up under the weight of them all.

Be more Helen...

"Helen Joyce, director of advocacy at Sex Matters, a human rights charity said: “The NHS has one job: to provide healthcare to everyone. No doubt that does involve public health messaging, like days to raise awareness of dementia or menopause symptoms.
“But endless tripe about special identities is not only tiresome, it’s a distraction from what medical professionals should be doing. It makes NHS staff look obsessed with trivial nonsense like made-up genders and preferred pronouns. Over time that’s bound to erode patients’ trust.
“This is all a waste of time and money. The NHS needs to drop the performative nonsense and focus its efforts on treating sick people and improving the nation’s health.”
NHS England was asked for comment."

lcakethereforeIam · 21/12/2024 11:53

I know this is a little off thread, but I saw this article and I wanted to post it

https://archive.ph/ZYjHE

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/21/gender-fluid-appreciation-trans-parents-day-nhs-calendar/

I hate to think how much is going on pins and lanyards, or how the staff can stand up under the weight of them all.

socialdilemmawhattodo · 21/12/2024 00:57

ScrollingLeaves · 20/12/2024 15:45

In case anyone here reading does not realise this person had her son castrated abroad when he was sixteen. She and her husband had decided he was trans as a young child because her husband did not accept his effeminate, possibly gay traits.

No she needs to prove she was right by getting other children on the same path.

I've always wondered why she wasn't prosecuted for child abuse. I believe from what I read that her son at that time was only 15. And yes the move to deal with that overseas is to break UK laws/culture etc. She will spend the rest of her life justifying that to anyone. The now mid-20s adult seems settled in their decision - so that at least is a small positive for that young person.

ScrollingLeaves · 20/12/2024 15:45

lcakethereforeIam · 20/12/2024 12:53

In case anyone here reading does not realise this person had her son castrated abroad when he was sixteen. She and her husband had decided he was trans as a young child because her husband did not accept his effeminate, possibly gay traits.

No she needs to prove she was right by getting other children on the same path.

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Brainworm · 19/12/2024 12:03

RoamingGnome · 19/12/2024 11:12

It's an interesting ethical point to compare licensed puberty blocker use in early onset puberty - where puberty is only delayed to an appropriate age, then the drugs stopped - and the use of them to completely prevent natural puberty, which arguably there is no safety data on. I would argue that phase 4 is inappropriate here as we have little hard data on long term outcomes from total puberty prevention. It's more similar to taking an adult drug and using it in young children- I don't know what the regulatory framework is there.

Setting out the primary outcome measure here is crucial. If it's level of distress (as I would expect) there are already studies showing no benefit from puberty blockers.

I have been wondering about this too Gnome.

I expect the original trials will be accepted in relation to understanding how the drug is metabolised, short term side effects and optimum dosage to achieve outcomes whilst limiting side effects.

If the original trials included participants at different Tanner stages, then they might be seen to be sufficient to consider this a phase 4 trial, regardless of age - as I assume pubertal stage is more significant than age.

RoamingGnome · 19/12/2024 11:12

It's an interesting ethical point to compare licensed puberty blocker use in early onset puberty - where puberty is only delayed to an appropriate age, then the drugs stopped - and the use of them to completely prevent natural puberty, which arguably there is no safety data on. I would argue that phase 4 is inappropriate here as we have little hard data on long term outcomes from total puberty prevention. It's more similar to taking an adult drug and using it in young children- I don't know what the regulatory framework is there.

Setting out the primary outcome measure here is crucial. If it's level of distress (as I would expect) there are already studies showing no benefit from puberty blockers.

Brainworm · 19/12/2024 11:07

"I suspect that there is a desire tro find good reasons for use..... That is certainly what I picked up on in Wes Streeting's recent speech."

I think the evidence that was presented to Cass and Streeting probably falls into the classification of 'practice-based evidence'. Practitioners and young people probably provided case studies and testimonials as to positive outcomes.

Practice-based evidence should be attended to in all fields of medicine, and followed up with robust research to test it more carefully.