Ban on puberty blockers to be made indefinite on experts’ advice

Where there is a physical condition such as a DSD, there may be justification for a physical intervention, though the least invasive would nearly always be my preference. When there is no known physical problem, it is unusual to say the least to consider a surgical solution. In the case of a hormonal imbalance, I would expect an endocrinologist to prefer a subtle adjustment over a drastic change to the body's workings. It is really worrying when a ideological position is taken that says people have a right to do whatever they like to their bodies, facilitated by doctors. We do not treat people with gender issues the same way we treat people with other psychological problems.

Familial impact is very real. It is caused by a number of things. First, it is a shock when someone very close to you says that they are really someone else, not the person you know and love. That in itself may take a long time to come to terms with, but certainly in my case my immediate reaction was to assure my son that I will always love him.

Secondly, the familial impact is heavily compounded by the self righteous activists and allies, who think they know everything. When someone imposes their self perception on everyone around them and demands that they be treated as if their self perception is reality and everyone else's perception is wrong and comes from bigotry and hatred, there is a big problem.

Other factors are the very real fear of losing a loved one to a "chosen family" who will not be there when life gets really tough, but are superficially attractive because they affirm and affirm and affirm, and the fear of a loved one going down a dangerous and physically destructive medical or even surgical path. No-one knows in advance whether cross sex hormones or surgery will cause serious physical problems, or whether it will lead to regret (a rather weak word for the ongoing nightmare some experience).

I'm glad your family listened with an open mind. So do I, but no-one has been able to present a coherent rationale as to why "gender dysphoria" or a wish to be the other sex requires us to deny that our son is my son, or why oestrogen is a good idea, or why anyone should try to change physical reality, or why our having a different (and perfectly rational) understanding of gender and sex is cause for estrangement. I'm still listening.

I don't spend whole evenings. I'd say you seem to spend far more time than me.

What concerns me most is the rights and protections of women and girls, and children more generally. I have been a teacher and a counsellor in my time, and I'm well aware of the nature of identity formation and of human suffering. Also as a woman who has inevitably lived an embodied female experience I am deeply offended by the suggestion that males are also women.

Be yourself, but don't claim to be something you are not. There is nothing to stop you campaigning for your own specialist and discrete provsiions.

You're not a marginalised minority. You currently have more rights than actual women do.

This article confuses me a little

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2024/1212/1486109-child-gender-dysphoria-ireland/

but what i'm taking from it is that Ireland has misgivings, is proceeding extremely cautiously and the tras are throwing their toys out of their prams.

Do you believe anorexics should be allowed to be prescribed weight loss drugs?

because we really can’t see the difference.

you couldn’t make informed consent. Children now cannot make informed consent. I’m certain nobody under at least 25 can either.

My endocrine system was never balanced. It started puberty late and changes were very sluggish and halfhearted.

Was that the puberty blockers that you said you had and are advocating for Butterfly?

Ok, whatever you say. Please keep believing that if it brings you comfort and peace. I'll continue living my life.

I suppose the silver lining of your continuing to believe that is that you are far less likely to accidentally harass me when I breeze past in the street.

My endocrine system was never balanced. It started puberty late and changes were very sluggish and halfhearted.

I'm not fertile but I was never going to be. There was never going to be a path ahead that would have resulted in the body you are presenting as a sacred natural path.

It is not self-denial to make an informed decision about your future based upon the information you have at the time and the very clear distress you feel about the developmental pathway your body is halfheartedly trying to drag you down.

I don't have a great deal in common with people who never experienced gender incongruence in childhood but I believe they should also be allowed to access treatment if they need it.

I beg you to reconsider your words about familial impact; they are not universal at all and transition is not a selfish, destructive act any more than revelations about any other facet of a person's life and identity are. My family took a while to be convinced - they were rightly concerned about making sure I made the correct decisions - but they listened with an open mind and even if they did not always understand at the time, they supported me as best they could. We have retained a wonderful relationship over the years and see each other frequently.

I'm looking forward to spending a lovely, wholesome Christmas in their company.

No one is doing those things.

puberty blockers don’t make anyone pass. They reduce your IQ, sexual function, bone density and a number of other things

But they never help you pass as another sex.

nobody ever passes. You don’t pass.

No not even slightly. There is more than enough evidence to say that carrying out further studies would be unethical.

stop ignoring everyone’s points.

opportunities to address sources of great distress before they become permanent

This is the typical older male transitioner fantasy - "if only I'd had access to puberty blockers, I'd have a female-facsimile body today".

It ignores the fact that blockers aren't magic, and we cannot turn males into females. The reality of a male puberty blockade and subsequent feminising transition is a lot less enticing and a lot less convincing than Butter's wish-fulfilment fantasy.

And it also ignores that the majority of adolescents seeking these drugs are female, for whom the considerations are entirely different. It's difficult to see adolescent female use of these drugs as anything other than an act of self-harm comparable to cutting or an eating disorder. Especially given the well-attested negative effects on mental health, IQ, bone health, fertility, sexual function.

Please get your story straight. I thought the whole point was that there isn't enough evidence to say either way?

Is that why you spend your evenings online arguing with marginalised minorities about how you want to take away their rights and protections against discrimination, routes of access to meaningful healthcare, and opportunities to address sources of great distress before they become permanent?

Shameful indeed.

She's conflated an on-demand access to (unevidenced) puberty blockers with access to the mental health care pathway in the Cass recommendations.

Yes, distressed children need urgently improved access to neutral mental health care, that unpicks their distress in a differential diagnosis approach. Looking at autism, trauma and other possible triggers for the body dysphoria. There's no need to challenge or affirm the child's gender identity in this approach.

But no, nobody needs an affirmation pathway and to be put in a position of fear, where they believe that without puberty blockers they aren't getting care.

By Tammy Hymas, Head of Communications and Advocacy at Mermaids.

Totes impartial then.

Look at this shameful piece

www.lbc.co.uk/opinion/views/ban-on-puberty-blockers-undermines-the-well-being-safety-and-mental-health-trans/

TBF, I took this at face value from Butterfly.

The poster being referred to had made some great points that were delivered with a balance of compassion and tough love. If that landed well with Butterfly, that's great.

Social media is a weird place and a MN thread is no exception. Obviously there has been a fair bit of hyperbole and misrepresentation flying around but there has also been engagement with some of the points. I'd like to think that this is one of those.

I'm not sure what to make of that. Are you suggesting that in order to be honest the previous poster has to make a special effort? I prefer to assume that everyone is honest unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise.

Extremely unhealthy coping strategies: unbalancing one's endocrine system and getting crude surgery to produce non-functional mockeries of genitalia; also throwing a grenade into one's family. Self denial includes denial of one's body.

I'm willing to consider the possibility that for some all other coping strategies are even worse, and when a DSD or an endocrine imbalance is present that changes the likelihood of any particular treatment being effective, but DSDs are very rare and it is completely obvious that many people caught up in trans identity thinking have no compounding physical condition and have not been distressed about "gender identity" in childhood.

Absolutely. I'm sure I'd have been one, as I've said previously. I'd been abused and hated my body for changing into something that men felt they had the right to. Hated periods, hated breasts, hated hips, hated pubic hair. Cut myself to ribbons and starved myself from that hatred. I was incredibly depressed. If someone had told me there was an option which would make me safe, I would have taken it like a shot.

Thankfully as an adult I can now place the blame and hatred squarely where it belongs, with the men who hurt me. I'm very glad to be a middle aged woman.

Most transitioners were men, because the male group contains a disproportionate number of autogynephilic cross dressers - for which there is no real female equivalent. Males are more highly represented in all paraphilias.

There are lots of women who post here, who would have - had they been a teenager today - probably taken the trans route if it had existed. Instead they struggled on and resolved their difficulties in a more healthy and natural way.

You do realise she is one of the most eminent paediatricians in the country? Her whole career has been dedicated to caring for children and adolescents.

Her study was not faith based ( nothing to do with religion); and it was methodical and rooted in standard scientific medical practice.

Very much. Her report was even handed and now it’s been taken up wholesale it’s clear we should not be doing actual tests with drugs proven to be harmful.