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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"My Husband Tried to BECOME Me" - Heretics Interview with Trans Widow

60 replies

UtopiaPlanitia · 09/12/2024 18:03

Andrew Gold's YT channel has this interview going live at 19.00 UK time today and I thought I'd start a thread in case anyone would like to discuss the video.

A bit of background regarding this interview:

In his recent video with Blair White, Andrew Gold mentioned to White that he had interviewed Tracy Shannon a few hours before filming his interview with White. And Gold told White that he and Shannon had a disagreement about trans issues, that he believed Shannon was very "hurt by this" and "against all this", and so he "gave her a bit of push back".

And now that the interview with Tracy is coming out, I'm going to be interested to see if Gold really was more sympathetic to Blair White in his previous interview than he was when interviewing Tracy Shannon.

CREEPY: My Husband Tried to BECOME Me - Trans Widow Tracy Shannon (4K)

Tracy Shannon’s couple’s therapist said she was a lesbian because she’d married a ‘woman’ - her husband who one day started trying to BE her. She explains ho...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLRMKrotJZM

OP posts:
TinselAngel · 11/12/2024 09:55

Janie143 · 11/12/2024 08:38

Fionne Orlander uses the mens Why can't BW? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3385912-fionne-orlander updated to add link

Edited

That was six years ago I'd be surprised if he still does.

Janie143 · 11/12/2024 08:38

Fionne Orlander uses the mens Why can't BW? https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3385912-fionne-orlander updated to add link

illinivich · 11/12/2024 08:22

I think AG is seeing blair whites boobs and just assumes our bodies are the same. He wouldnt clock white in a supermarket, so we should be comfortable with him in our space?

Or is it that he would be uncomfortable with blair in his space, so he pushes him into woman spaces?

Datun · 11/12/2024 00:16

illinivich · 10/12/2024 22:28

To be honest, i dont think AG has thought about this for long or too deeply. He can see childhood trans as a cult of sorts, the middle aged non passing men as a fetish, but womens criticism of the happy trans person?

I dont think hes really thought about how we would be able to compromise with the blair whites and exclude middle aged fetishists. Where is the line?

Conveniently for him, hes given the job to women to sort out.

The thing is, even if you knew for certain that a man wasn't a danger, most of the time you still don't want to disrobe around him.

My son's friends? My father-in-law? All delightful. No way do I want to share a changing room with them.

illinivich · 10/12/2024 22:28

To be honest, i dont think AG has thought about this for long or too deeply. He can see childhood trans as a cult of sorts, the middle aged non passing men as a fetish, but womens criticism of the happy trans person?

I dont think hes really thought about how we would be able to compromise with the blair whites and exclude middle aged fetishists. Where is the line?

Conveniently for him, hes given the job to women to sort out.

Datun · 10/12/2024 21:31

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/12/2024 14:23

From reading comments under the video, other people are also of the same opinion as AG that Tracy shouldn’t criticise or refuse to work with trans people such as Buck Angel and Blair White.

The reasoning seems to be that White and Angel are rational trans people who realise they haven’t literally changed sex and that both stand up to their community and so need our support.

I would argue that neither is rational purely because they recognise they haven’t literally changed sex, both are saying transition is bad but it worked for me which is an incoherent message. Both also continue to use opposite sex spaces and have opposite sex documentation and they want the right to continue doing that. I don’t think either of these people is standing up to their community for women and children, I think they’re trying to preserve their current lifestyle by influencing the debate to see them as true trans who should be allowed exceptions.

Edited

Over the years, every single man who wants into women's spaces justifies it on the basis of his own personal criteria.

Debbie Hayton, because he's honest about his fetish. Tara Hudson, because men will beat him up. GRC holders, because they've got the Lady Ticket. The late Jan Morris, because he transitioned soo long ago. People like India Willoughby and Robin White, because they imagine they pass.

They've all got their own story, and it's the only one that counts. And now Blair White, because Blair makes capital out of pretending what he's doing isn't sexist. It's the opposite, apparently!

And the people whose space it is, the women, don't get a say.

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/12/2024 14:23

From reading comments under the video, other people are also of the same opinion as AG that Tracy shouldn’t criticise or refuse to work with trans people such as Buck Angel and Blair White.

The reasoning seems to be that White and Angel are rational trans people who realise they haven’t literally changed sex and that both stand up to their community and so need our support.

I would argue that neither is rational purely because they recognise they haven’t literally changed sex, both are saying transition is bad but it worked for me which is an incoherent message. Both also continue to use opposite sex spaces and have opposite sex documentation and they want the right to continue doing that. I don’t think either of these people is standing up to their community for women and children, I think they’re trying to preserve their current lifestyle by influencing the debate to see them as true trans who should be allowed exceptions.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2024 14:20

It is, and deeply disrespectful of your experience.

TinselAngel · 10/12/2024 14:09

That he thinks it's trans widows job to facilitate that is bizarre.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2024 14:01

He's very late to the party to be throwing his weight around. Plus ça change.

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/12/2024 13:57

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2024 10:09

The idea that women should work with men who AG sees as not extreme is madness because no man is going to listen to terfs and moderate his behaviour. And this moderate behaviour is still damaging to woman, even if AG doesn’t think it is.

What he doesn't realise is that these men despise women too. Or maybe he doesn't care.

When he was interviewing Blair White, I got the impression that AG meant HSTS males when he was talking about it being hardline to deny access to all women’s spaces. But, given that he interviewed Tracy Shannon a few hours before interviewing Blair White and still made similar points about being hardline and that not all trans-identifying males are fetishists in that interview with a trans widow, I don’t know exactly what he means.

He seems to believe that trans-identifying males who are not dangerous should be allowed to use women’s spaces but the only definite criteria he seems to have in mind for this lack of danger are males who aren’t sexually attracted to women and males who are not lying about really being males which he seems to believe would make them not fetishists.

When you think about it, what Andrew is saying is the sort of argument we were hearing 8 years ago in the early days of the GRA consultation; however, the arguments formulated by women have moved on significantly from slightly pushing back to a complete ‘No’ to males in women’s spaces. OR as Nancy Mace would frame it, “No balls in our stalls”.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2024 10:09

The idea that women should work with men who AG sees as not extreme is madness because no man is going to listen to terfs and moderate his behaviour. And this moderate behaviour is still damaging to woman, even if AG doesn’t think it is.

What he doesn't realise is that these men despise women too. Or maybe he doesn't care.

TinselAngel · 10/12/2024 09:48

Its women having to justify boundaries because a series of men find different reasons to remove those boundaries

This is the tale of the trans widow that I've been telling for a long time.

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2024 09:20

Datun · 10/12/2024 08:49

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

'Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry'.

Now you come to mention it:

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  1. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
  1. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
  1. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
  1. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

  2. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

  3. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

  4. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

illinivich · 10/12/2024 09:15

Its women having to justify boundaries because a series of men find different reasons to remove those boundaries.

Women who critise TRA are seen as toxic, even within GC, women who maintain safeguarding are regarded as unreasonable, to say the least.

The idea that women should work with men who AG sees as not extreme is madness because no man is going to listen to terfs and moderate his behaviour. And this moderate behaviour is still damaging to woman, even if AG doesn’t think it is.

TinselAngel · 10/12/2024 08:56

"Meet me in the middle says the unjust man"

TinselAngel · 10/12/2024 08:53

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

It's our exes who radicalise us, not the other way around.

Datun · 10/12/2024 08:49

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2024 08:31

Andrew Gold thinks women need to accept help from trans-identifying men who accept that they have a fetish and/ or accept they are biologically male.

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

So women have to put up with men who are already radicalised to prevent their radicalisation?

Is Andrew dim?

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

'Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry'.

TinselAngel · 10/12/2024 08:45

He approached me wanting to interview a UK based trans widow, who was articulate. I said I wasn't comfortable with auditioning abuse survivors based on articulacy and sent him away with lots of homework.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2024 08:44

He can fuck off with that.

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2024 08:31

Andrew Gold thinks women need to accept help from trans-identifying men who accept that they have a fetish and/ or accept they are biologically male.

Andrew thinks women holding the line might serve to radicalise trans-identifying men.

So women have to put up with men who are already radicalised to prevent their radicalisation?

Is Andrew dim?

TinselAngel · 10/12/2024 08:29

And now you're getting another entitled, sexist man who doesn't care about women's consent, telling women that yet more entitled, sexist men but this time with a misogynistic fetish, can help them

You can see why when AG approached me, we didn't hit it off. I'm glad Tracy has done it though.

Datun · 10/12/2024 08:20

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/12/2024 00:27

I agree with you: I know a lot of men who I believe would not be a danger to or disrespectful towards women but I don't want them in women's spaces because they're men.

AG and BW seemed quite happy to agree that women asserting that women's spaces are female only was hardline and not helpful to either trans people or women 🤷‍♀️ BW stated that he tries to use unisex spaces as much as possible but won't be made to feel bad for using female spaces if there's no unisex option.

I've never quite understood why some people think Blair White should get a pass. Entitled, sexist man, who don't care about women's consent.

And now you're getting another entitled, sexist man who doesn't care about women's consent, telling women that yet more entitled, sexist men but this time with a misogynistic fetish, can help them!

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/12/2024 00:41

Enough4me · 10/12/2024 00:39

'Sex mimic' is a new term, it makes sense, says exactly what it is on the tin.

Exactly!

I've learned two new useful terms this week: 'sex mimic' (from Tracy Shannon) and 'sex falsification'. (from Women's Declaration International).

OP posts:
Enough4me · 10/12/2024 00:39

'Sex mimic' is a new term, it makes sense, says exactly what it is on the tin.

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