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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Puberty blockers: Can a drug trial solve one of medicine's most controversial debates?

115 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/12/2024 01:48

It is among the most delicate and controversial challenges in modern medicine - how to determine whether the benefits of puberty blockers (or drugs that delay puberty) outweigh the potential harms.

This question came to the fore in June 2023 when NHS England proposed that in the future, these drugs would only be prescribed to children questioning their gender as part of clinical research.
Since then, a new government has arrived in Westminster and Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said he is committed to "setting up a clinical trial" to establish the evidence on puberty blockers. The National Institute for Health and Care Research is expected to confirm soon that funding is in place for a trial.

The dilemma that remains is, how will such a trial work?

Eighteen months since the announcement there is still a lack of consensus around how the trial should be conducted. It will also need to be approved by a committee of experts who have to decide, among other things, whether what's being tested might cause undue physical or psychological harm.

But there is a second unanswered question that some, but by no means all, scientists have that is more pressing than the first: is it right to perform this particular trial on children and young people at all?

Article by Deborah Cohen continues at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyd2qe5kkjo

The male and female symbols and a syringe going into a bottle

Puberty blockers: Can a drug trial solve the big debate?

The government has pledged to determine the evidence - and establish whether the benefits outweigh any potential harms of prescribing puberty blockers to children questioning their gender

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyd2qe5kkjo

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WarriorN · 09/12/2024 08:03

Is this a priming nudge piece ordered by the Gov?

Whilst Debs Cohen has always been excellent on this, it's usually been within Newsnight.

I feel it's significant that she's been given / written this piece rather than any other department. I also feel based on this piece, and who they've interviewed, it leans towards the uk making firm decisions based on ethics; that a trial isn't ethical.

And as a pp says, waiting for more evidence from elsewhere- which won't be great. So an ongoing delay?

I may be reading too much into that, but these are children. The public need to be talking about it.

"Stuff" comment is ridiculous. Children in those situations are usually very likely to die from their condition within a few years or months.

Taytoface · 09/12/2024 07:56

Do we know who the Chief Investigator will be? Has the protocol been written and reviewed? Has it been through the ethics committee and approved by the regulators?

If none of the above has been done, it will be months before this opens with alot more hurdles ahead

AlisonDonut · 09/12/2024 07:40

I'd like to see them state that these drugs were never approved for this use and that the adult clinics refused to supply their data to Cass.

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 07:33

tobee · 09/12/2024 03:06

Gosh looking at those lovely photos of Natacha there's nothing narcissistic looking about them at all. Hmm

Wouldn't look out of place at Malaga Airport

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 07:32

I can't see this making it through ethics

BonfireLady · 09/12/2024 06:11

Thanks for sharing OP.

Every now and again, the BBC pulls it out of the bag with a great article like this.

One thing I'd like to have seen mentioned is the recent 9 year trial puberty blocker trial in the US:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/science/puberty-blockers-olson-kennedy.html

Thinking about this a bit more,
given it's of international interest, could Wes Streeting put pressure on the next US government to force its publication? From a UK perspective, I would like the NHS to have access to the methodology and results of this US trial before deciding whether it's ethical to start our own**. Ideally, the Cass Review would have had access to this US trial. Had it done so, we might not be in the position where we "need" to run one here.

**I can't imagine a situation where it's deemed ethical to run a puberty blocker trial in the UK. Fertility and bone density aside (both of which are red flags anyway), the impact on the developing teenage brain is unknown and highly likely permanent in every case.

Sallie Baxendale's explanation of what we already know about brain development tells us all we need to know about whether preventing puberty completely is ethical:

How on earth could it ever be ethical to run a trial where the outcome would be highly like to be permanent brain damage?

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AlisonDonut · 09/12/2024 03:29

Gordon Guyatt, a professor at McMaster University in Canada, who points out that randomised trials are done in "life-threatening stuff all the time'

We heard in the USA Supreme court last week that 'gender incongruence' isn't life threatening at all. So that's sorted then. No need for any trial. Thanks Gordon.

tobee · 09/12/2024 03:06

Gosh looking at those lovely photos of Natacha there's nothing narcissistic looking about them at all. Hmm

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 02:53

This Kennedy:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6145781/University-researcher-asked-Facebook-group-circulate-list-academics-disagreed-her.html

There's also good article by Lucy bannerman for the times but it's paywalled

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 02:44

Oops,

Otherwise it's an excellent explanation of the issues. Hard to conclude any other way CrocsNotDocs

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 02:43

Others

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 02:42

My one criticism is that Natasha Kennedy is not explained.

Their views that kids should be given them, sitting next to the rightly concerned view of the mother from Bayswater who does not, is rather grim when you know the full context.

Interesting that there's no "pro" medical view from any U.K. gp, medical practitioner or clinical group. Kennedy is the only U.K. pro voice.

WPATH are quoted but that a trial is unnecessary.

Both CAN-SG and Bayswater named. No U.K. org of any sort on the "other" side.

CrocsNotDocs · 09/12/2024 02:21

Puberty blockers are unethical and any trial would be unethical.

WarriorN · 09/12/2024 02:15

Just came to post this after spotting it just now during insomniac scrolling.

Cohen asking all the right key questions as usual. Is it right?

IwantToRetire · 09/12/2024 01:50

is it right to perform this particular trial on children and young people at all?

That was a, if not the, question I always wanted someone to explain.

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