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Intersex

314 replies

Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 18:52

Bit of a thought experiment, plus curious as to how much people know about intersex conditions / DSDs.

This is slightly Black Mirror, although not totally beyond the realms of possibility. If there ever came a point where anything specifically related to being male or female required a DNA test to determine your sex before participating, what would happen to intersex people whose chromosomes didn't match their outward appearance (i.e. genotype and phenotype don't match)?

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titchy · 03/12/2024 19:08

It would depend on why they were being categorised wouldn't it? Confused

Original poster
Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 19:08

PoissonOfTheChrist · 03/12/2024 19:02

Wouldn't they just be found to be either male or female? There is no mixed sex or other human sexes other than male or female.

I assume they would be found to be male or female, yes, although there are variations such as XXY or X0.

Agree there is no mixed sex.

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Original poster
Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 19:07

dementedpixie · 03/12/2024 19:01

They are still either male or female with a DSD; there is no 3rd sex/between the sexes

I agree, but how would they be categorised in my hypothetical example?

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titchy · 03/12/2024 19:07

You're wrong. As pp have said, all known DSDs (don't use the term intersex, it's offensive) are specific to one or other sex. A DNA test would, and indeed does, reveal the sex of the individual. In a few cases they may get a shock, having understood themselves to be the other sex, but their DNA would still show their biological sex.

Original poster
Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 19:06

romdowa · 03/12/2024 19:00

I have no idea how it works genetically to tell you the truth. Would it be similar to conditions that have an extra chromosome like xxy ?

That sort of thing, yes. I'm specifically thinking of 46XY complete gonadal dysgenesis, but I think there are others.

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Original poster
Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 19:04

Cerialkiller · 03/12/2024 18:59

No this is right. You can be male with a dsd or female with a dsd. Intersex is a misnomer and isn't really the correct term for people with one of several different conditions.

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No, this is wrong. Well, at least it depends what you mean by "biological sex", I suppose, but I assume the PP was intending that as a "gotcha" that it's as simple as XX vs XY.

The whole point is that you can't tell someone's sex from a DNA test if they have a certain type of DSD, because that's exactly what is disordered: phenotype and genotype don't match.

Yes, you can be a male or a female with a DSD - I agree with that. And intersex is a misnomer in that sense.

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PoissonOfTheChrist · 03/12/2024 19:02

Wouldn't they just be found to be either male or female? There is no mixed sex or other human sexes other than male or female.

dementedpixie · 03/12/2024 19:01

They are still either male or female with a DSD; there is no 3rd sex/between the sexes

Original poster
Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 19:00

PermanentTemporary · 03/12/2024 18:57

As I understand it there are certain conditions where five areas are considered before diagnosis is made (three of which are karyotype, external genitals, gonads).

Thing is that once the diagnosis is confirmed, you have it, along with an expected path of development.

Do you know what the other two are? I guess hormones is one of them?

In my dystopian imagined State, cheek swabs would be taken before entry was allowed to any single-sex function, but a strip search would be rather invasive.

Perhaps people with DSDs would have to carry exemption cards or something.

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romdowa · 03/12/2024 19:00

I have no idea how it works genetically to tell you the truth. Would it be similar to conditions that have an extra chromosome like xxy ?

Cerialkiller · 03/12/2024 18:59

Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 18:57

Ok, so that's one person who doesn't know about intersex conditions...

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No this is right. You can be male with a dsd or female with a dsd. Intersex is a misnomer and isn't really the correct term for people with one of several different conditions.

Original poster
Tootsurly · 03/12/2024 18:57

Twoshoesnewshoes · 03/12/2024 18:55

The DNA test will reveal their chromosomes and therefore biological sex.

Ok, so that's one person who doesn't know about intersex conditions...

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PermanentTemporary · 03/12/2024 18:57

As I understand it there are certain conditions where five areas are considered before diagnosis is made (three of which are karyotype, external genitals, gonads).

Thing is that once the diagnosis is confirmed, you have it, along with an expected path of development.

Twoshoesnewshoes · 03/12/2024 18:55

The DNA test will reveal their chromosomes and therefore biological sex.

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