Republican Congresswoman bring forward Bill to ban transwomen from female facilities in Congress

It matters because her actions have context and do not occur in a vacuum, and cause harm to cis women and girls in other ways.

For over a century, until a few years ago, societies had public bathrooms split by sex, the men with urinals, the womens with sanitary bins. Worked well, although women were often unhappy with the long line for the womens.
If a man went into the womens, women asked them to leave and if they didn't, the women called for help and the man was removed.
Male cleaners always entered politely and it was signposted a male cleaner was present.

Worked fine. Was safe and dignified for both men and women and assaults and voyeurism were a lot less than in mixed sex facilities.

But now, the same setup is 'harmful for women and girls'?

Why? It worked for over a hundred years. Are men now all so nice that they never pose a risk to women but women are now so vicious that they pose a risk to other women? Or is this comment just unfounded and meant to scare?

I do think selfies in the loos are quite a big thing with young women.

Because they're often dressed up on a night out, have had drinks, are in there with friends, there are mirrors to pose and touch up, and it's a separation space/ break from the mixed sex social space.

I don't do this myself as I'm a middle aged woman so a quick hand wash and checking my skirt isn't tucked into my tights suffices, but it's silly to argue girls don't do this.

Girls have always bonded over dressing up, playing with beauty and fashion and doing this separately from the boys. The loo selfies are a modern extension of that.

This is why the TWs want in on the women's loos for the full 'girlie' experience.

I don't think it's helpful to say there is no female hanging out and bonding going on in loos, which now might involve selfies, but instead should argue those girls have a right to have a space for their antics separate from men just because they want to.

As an aside, every public toilet I've been in has had terrible lighting, either dingy or really harsh, usually fluorescent.

Goodness me, young people seem to be so narcissistic they have lost all sense of decorum. In my ancient opinion there's no such thing as a great selfie, with the possible exception of an amusing self-mocking one.

Is this a byproduct of ubiquitous porn, or just social media? There was a time not so long ago that modesty was considered a virtue. Now it's all self promotion and display, including displaying to the whole world what used to be reserved for intimate relationships.

This is spot on and it's great to see it so clearly articulated and evidenced (even though the evidence is grim).

This is what so many women on here have tied themselves in pretzels to try and say without breaking the eggshell rules of not harming men's feelings.

Langcleg, formerly of this parish, was banned for trying to explain the obvious safeguarding loophole.

I will say that some 'tru trans' transsexuals have tried to stand up to the anti-safeguarding nightmare but have been viciously punished for doing so, much like the women who've tried to speak up.

Bahahahahaha.

Funny.

I don't know why PinkChesnut didn't just go for the 'report to MN' option...

You think that men who say they are women should be allowed to go into women's toilets.

@UtopiaPlanitia in a post at 01:32 quoted a man who had tweeted exactly why this is a problem. I quoted some of that post:

We started seeing videos of men masturbating in women's bathrooms, started seeing SM posts of very obviously non-dysphoric men taking "trophy hunting" pictures of themselves triumphantly posting pictures of themselves in women's bathrooms, smugly bragging about their new access to these spaces, and gloating about the fact the actual women whom these spaces were created for couldn't do a thing about it.

If you support the right of any man who says he's a woman to go into women-only spaces, you are encouraging predatory men to pretend to be transgender so that they can go into women-only spaces.

You have said that you think any man who says he's a woman should be allowed in women-only spaces. Therefore you are encouraging these predatory men.

The libel accusation started before you posted OldCrone.

I find the initial post it was used in response to fascinating. It makes no sense but for it to be a mechanism to distract and blow up the thread rather than answer the question asked.

Don’t worry, PinkChesnut can’t afford to sue:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5214280-5214280-more-canadian-madness?reply=139999219&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

What have I said which is libel?

This. The only 'girls' I know who take selfies in toilets are males pretending to be girls.

Their (porn addled) fantasy of what a girl is never bears the slightest comparison to reality.

Yep. Telling, isn’t it?

Good spot.

That wording is always an interesting observation.

You walked into the party like you were walking onto a yacht
Your hat strategically dipped below one eye
Your scarf it was apricot
You had one eye in the mirror, as you watched yourself gavotte
And all the girls dreamed that they'd be your partner
They'd be your partner and

You're so vain
You probably think this song is about you

You're so vain (you're so vain)
I bet you think this song is about you
Don't you, don't you?

You had me several years ago when I was still quite naive
Well you said that we made such a pretty pair and that you would never leave
But you gave away the things you loved
And one of them was me
I had some dreams they were clouds in my coffee, clouds in my coffee and
You're so vain

You probably think this song is about you
You're so vain, you're so vain
I bet you think this song is about you
Don't you don't you, don't you?

I had some dreams they were clouds in my coffee, clouds in my coffee and

You're so vain
You probably think this song is about you
You're so vain (you're so vain)
I bet you think this song is about you
Don't you don't you

Well I hear you went up to Saratoga
And your horse naturally won
Then you flew your lear jet up to Nova Scotia
To see the total eclipse of the sun

Well you're where you should be all the time
And when you're not, you're with some underworld spy
Or the wife of a close friend, wife of a close friend and

You're so vain
You probably think this song is about you
You're so vain (so vain)
I bet you think this song is about you
Don't you don't you, don't you, don't you now

You're so vain
You probably think this song is about you
You're so vain
Probably think this song about you
You're so vain

. I would have much less issue if she were a democrat and not part of the party that scuttled Row v Wade.

So, if she were a Democrat and not campaigning against Roe V Wade, you would support her in the exclusion of men from female only spaces?

PinkChesnut · Today 08:29

Asking a question of how I am protecting women by encouraging predatory men to enter women's spaces is saying I am encouraging predatory men to enter women's spaces.

A large number of transw are predatory men, who act in disgusting ways in women's toilets and changing rooms. The internet is full of images and videos of this. There have been cases of sexual assaults in the news, by transw on girls and women.

You fully support them accessing women's toilets and changing rooms.

Could you please explain, how are you not encouraging them?

Good. Read this paragraph from MN. In fact, read the rest of them while you're at it,

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but our moderation team will most likely delete these expressions if we feel they're being used in a deliberately inflammatory way.

www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

So basically you don't like her because she's a republican and therefore even if she does a single thing right you will oppose it because she's a republican.

This is following a 'you are either with us or against us' narrative which is a known propaganda technique.

It is a false dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy or false binary, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when, in fact, there could be many.

False dilemmas often have the form of treating two contraries, which may both be false, as contradictories, of which one is necessarily true. Various inferential schemes are associated with false dilemmas, for example, the constructive dilemma, the destructive dilemma or the disjunctive syllogism. False dilemmas are usually discussed in terms of deductive arguments, but they can also occur as defeasible arguments.

The human liability to commit false dilemmas may be due to the tendency to simplify reality by ordering it through either-or-statements, which is to some extent already built into human language. This may also be connected to the tendency to insist on clear distinction while denying the vagueness of many common expressions.

And

Explanation and avoidance
Part of understanding fallacies involves going beyond logic to empirical psychology in order to explain why there is a tendency to commit or fall for the fallacy in question. In the case of the false dilemma, the tendency to simplify reality by ordering it through either-or-statements may play an important role. This tendency is to some extent built into human language, which is full of pairs of opposites. This type of simplification is sometimes necessary to make decisions when there is not enough time to get a more detailed perspective.

In order to avoid false dilemmas, the agent should become aware of additional options besides the prearranged alternatives. Critical thinking and creativity may be necessary to see through the false dichotomy and to discover new alternatives

We are quite big on critical thinking here.

“Girls” take selfies in “bathrooms”.

Well I never.

You are resorting to threats because you won't answer a question:
can you explain how you protect women and girls by encouraging these predatory men to use women only spaces?

This is not libel. This question isn't damaging to your reputation. It is asking you to explain how you protect women and girls by encouraging predatory men to use women only spaces. That is all. You could easily respond and give an explanation about how you balance safeguarding with this desire to uphold gender identity.

Instead you've gone off the deep end for no reason.

If you were going to scream libel, I think you possibly could make a case with another post. But not the one you decided to do it with.

Which only leads me to the conclusion that you'd reached a point in the conversation where you couldn't give a reasonable answer so decided to blow up the conversation instead by throwing accusations around (rather than reporting it to MN which you could have done, because MNHQ will delete libelous posts or posts that personally attack).

Either way the way this has now played out gives a particular impression that, by your own making, isn't particularly positive.

Well done.

Is making up bogus definitions a hobby for you and your pals? Unserious means not serious.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

I was discussing canadian nieces and their american-based cousins.

Still completely confused. Why would Canadian citizens visiting the USA feel unsafe and/ or discriminated against, because men aren't allowed in female only spaces in the USA ?

I am breaking a rule, pls by all means point out which TOS or rule I am violating. I have no problem not using a latin term if it's in the site rules.

I was discussing canadian nieces and their american-based cousins.

Mace is a part of a large movement who is actively taking away rights from women and girls.

She will use this success to further her goals to take away rights from natal women and girls. I would have much less issue if she were a democrat and not part of the party that scuttled Row v Wade.