The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity Part 2

Mmkay. I disagree.

The evidence, that is clear, that most people think gender identity ideology is bobbins, however unimportant they find it.

See? You came up with a nice reason for yourself why you could disregard evidence presented to you

I made it clear what I would do, and I did it I explained in detail why I think your survey two weeks before the election doesn't contradict the evidence I think is more telling.

See? You came up with a nice reason for yourself why you could disregard evidence presented to you so you could remain entrenched in your beliefs and feel unchallenged in them.

Oh, and by the way, can you just tell me whether you have in fact seen this 20 year evidence, or do you simply feel very strongly that it must exist?

I got the impression it was hypothetical. Which of course it would be, or I imagine FWR would have seen it by now.

Yes, I am a centrist. I can't vote in the U.S. but would vote Dem if I could, as it's very binary here vs other countries with multiple parties.

Your survey is pre election, and doesn't deal with the fact that the ad campaign did resonate with the small number of swing states, possibly because pretending to believe in ludicrous things makes one seem irrational and untrustworthy as I suggested. The discussion for that is upthread.

In a way that wouldn't necessarily play in the firmly red or blue states that already have their stance and aren't swayed easily.

Oh, and by the way, can you just tell me whether you have in fact seen this 20 year evidence, or do you simply feel very strongly that it must exist?

Ah, like War is peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is strength, PinkChestnut's car is my car, that sort of thing?

Political, social and legal contradictions do indeed make life "interesting" for those who are privileged enough to put their thumb on the scales of whichever side benefits them the most at any given point.

For the people without social power, they are just one more way the powerful play "heads I win, tails you lose".

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/icymi-new-survey-finds-anti-trans-ads-ineffective-disliked-by-voters

Yes, I am a centrist. I can't vote in the U.S. but would vote Dem if I could, as it's very binary here vs other countries with multiple parties.

Unlikely. Reading evidence that is contrary to our views just further entrenches our views.

Really. Guess that explains your ideological stance then.

I don't need to agree with evidence, but I need to be able to explain why I don't think it's relevant/compelling. And I can, whether that explanation is convincing or not, it's genuine. How about you?

No, anti-trans laws are deeply unpopular here.

Sure, that's a winning position so you aren't actually a centrist then? Goodo.

Not for me particularly. I am comfortable with contradictions. They make life interesting.

Yes, cognitive dissonance is painful.

Without asking you to do anything as gauche as actually post your evidence, can you just tell me whether you have in fact seen this evidence, or do you simply feel very strongly that it must exist?

I am protecting my peace 😇

Convenient.

If that is what you think, prove it. Post your evidence.

No, anti-trans laws are deeply unpopular here.

Unlikely. Reading evidence that is contrary to our views just further entrenches our views.

today.tamu.edu/2020/12/01/your-brains-built-in-biases-insulate-your-beliefs-from-contradictory-facts/

Please don't bring this back to the tedious US obsession with "restrooms". While the importance of female people having spaces away from male regardless of how those men identify is undeniable, the right of female people to their own name, political voice and history is far more important than simply who gets to pee where.

Have to be honest, the attempt to equate someone who is trans to someone who thinks they are me isn't working for me as a convincing argument

What, in your understanding, does someone who is trans experience that is not simply the equivalent of "thinking they are PinkChestnut"?

So as a "centrist" on gender identity ideology, should the Dems change their approach at all @PinkChesnut?

I won't "disregard" genuine evidence, I'll assess it and give you my opinion on it.

Like I said, why would I bother?

Why not try? You might enlighten us with your killer arguments! Because I assume you have some evidence or reasoned arguments to back up your rhetoric, right?

I actually am suggesting that women are excluded from men's sports to deny us access to funding and opportunity, but that's just my feeling on it!

Like I said, why would I bother? You have a laundry list of arguments pre-prepped as to why you'll disregard any evidence that contradicts your views.

Sorry, but are you seriously suggesting that sport shouldn't have different categories for men and women?

Sport has different categories based on sex in order to protect the participation of women in sport because in almost all physical activities - which most sports are - men have inbuilt physical advantages created by the presence of testosterone during and post-puberty.

Those advantages (eg height, limb length, strength, bone density) are not reduced sufficiently by hormone therapy to allow fair competition between women and "transwomen".

Every transwoman competing in a women's event is simply eroding women's participation in sport.

Fortunately I think most international sports organisations (World Swimming, World Athletics, ITU) now recognise this even though many US sporting organisations do not.

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage | Sports Medicine

PS - I'm not saying that transwomen aren't human or aren't nice people or are all nasty people. I'm saying a transwoman is not a woman and can't expect to be treated as a woman in all respects.

I could produce a twenty-year long multi peer review study for you in support of my argument and it wouldn't matter to you.

Can you? Go on then :)