The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity Part 2

When someone shows me who they are, I believe them.

Absolutely agree.

At a certain level of sport, or really anytime you're in the top of your field (and 203rd worldwide is still the top of the field), it is as much about luck as it is about anything else.

The old story of the girl and Babe Ruth comes to mind.

When someone shows me who they are, I believe them.

However, given some of the comments many progressive Americans consider bigoted, it's hard to take that kind of thing at face value.

Yes, that is certainly the usual rhetoric one hears.

Is Trump supposed to be the white supremacist?

Not just Trump I think, many of the people voting for him in the eyes of some.

Did you see what happened when Serena Williams played against the 203rd ranked male player?

She lost. Not a close match. The greatest female tennis player in history.

Acknowledging that some people believe in it is not the same thing as promoting it.

I don't care that some people believe incoherent things. That's up to them, it's a free country. It doesn't mean that I have to treat them as a legitimate thing to believe.

As pp said, it's a 5 minute old belief. I'm not going to put in on the same level as more established ones.

Yes, he is racist. He has a long history of documented racism, including racist comments.

He aligns himself with white supremacists like Steven Bannon and Steve Miller. It's not a reach to think he shares their beliefs.

Is Trump supposed to be the white supremacist?

I have a fair bit of non-white family and a lot of them would have voted for Trump over Harris, and while I wouldn't exactly say they like him, they don't think he's a white supremacist.

I was on mix-gender sports teams when in school and never had an issue personally, and don't see a problem with mix-gender sports. In fact I strongly believe that pushes to keep women out of men's sports has come from men not wanting to compete with us.

I'm sorry, but no, within Christian philosophy, which is essentially a form of platonism, there are quite well defined definitions of what God is, what his relation is to the material world, and so on.

Yes, many people who are Christians don't get into philosophy, in the same way many people who "believe in science" couldn't tell you about the mathematics of black holes. That doesn't mean every individuals literary or imaginative ideas about them mean that science doesn't say something coherent.

@Manxexile Where did they come from and where did they go this year?

Agreed. There's also no excuse for promoting it in schools. Vulnerable children are conflating their teenage angst (some with autism-related puberty distress, e.g. sensory issues with breast development and periods) with a belief that it's possible to be born in the wrong body.

Acknowledging that some people believe in it is not the same thing as promoting it.

Lol A few days ago I saw a comment on a liberal sub on Reddit that said “Maybe we did steal the last election.”

Especially as this was a much, much more contentious election than the last one. It’s eyebrow raising for sure.

Women and girls are half the population. There's no excuse for promoting an unpopular pseudoscientific belief system over female rights.

This is an interesting post. I have a couple of questions:

I start to think why can't boys compete alongside girls?

Does this mean you currently think that they shouldn't? If so, why not?

Why can't trans girls compete against girls?

What's the difference between a boy competing against a girl and a transgirl competing against a girl?

Yes, I'm blaming the left, hope that's clear @JessaWoo

They have no excuse for promoting an incoherent luxury belief that most people don't share over women's sex based rights.

They bury the lede every time.

It's why anti-trans rhetoric fails for me. If you align with a group of people who see me as nothing more than a womb that doesn't deserve to vote or have a bank account, you lose me.

So you agree that feminists have aligned themselves with white supremacists - but of course, you’re blaming the Left? 🙄 Do feminists go around like sheep being led? Do they have no foundational backbone?

What is god?

There are many different answers to this. Many go round in a circle without explaining what or who god is e.g. god is in all of us, god is love, god is good, god is omnipresent. It's entirely coherent within a framework that supports the idea that god is real: if you believe in god, all these things make sense.

Just as the circular definition of gender identity is entirely coherent within a framework that supports the idea that gender identity is real. If you believe that gender identity is real, gender expression and gender affirming care make sense.

The salient point being that laws, education and healthcare shouldn't ratify any of it as real. Luckily, Christians agree (and there are church schools for those that want it ratified in education). Even more luckily, a belief in god won't lead anyone to harm themselves or others these days - unless your local church is run by the rave vicar of Sheffield, or you happen to be in Jonestown or Waco etc. Thankfully the church has left most of its extreme beliefs behind, a couple of centuries ago.

As someone who is solidly centrist on these issues, you lose me with this behaviour and make me question your hardline stances. I start to think why can't boys compete alongside girls? Why can't trans girls compete against girls? It all seems very silly and overblown.

I knew we'd get to bingo.

BINGO - the old women do it too trope. Despite all statistics showing otherwise and that given 98% of sex crimes are by biological males, that segregation by sex is a very effective safeguarding measure for women and children.

Hahahaha. What do I win?

@PinkChesnut

I like to be perceived as not naive. Radical feminist lesbian activist Magdalen Berns (RIP) had a very apt saying.

"I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar"

Hope that helps.