The Democrats Need an Honest Conversation on Gender Identity Part 2

I'm a rape survivor and a CSA survivor. I have shared many a restroom with trans women and it hasn't given me pause.

Polls suggest most women feel differently.

Have to be honest, the attempt to equate someone who is trans to someone who thinks they are me isn't working for me as a convincing argument.

I'm a rape survivor and a CSA survivor. I have shared many a restroom with trans women and it hasn't given me pause. They are just people. Some good, some bad. Most good. We have different lived experiences but it doesn't take away from me or bother me if they think they have the same experience as I have.

This election was largely about the economy and immigration, gender ideology took a backseat and may have blipped in the polls but that was really not the main issue or even a big enough issue to make a difference.

People don't like it in the main though, you'd agree? As we discussed on this thread earlier, the idea that men are women or that gender identity should trump sex is also something that is such a blatant gaslighting lie that it makes people seem untrustworthy even if people aren't that bothered about the actual issue.

And I think rather than anything else that's why the ad hit home in swing states more than other places.

And if someone asked you to refer to them as PinkChestnut because they just feel so gosh-darn PinkChestnutty, because they just know when they look at you that you and them are really really the same inside, that's ok by you, yes? Even if their idea of what it's like to be PinkChestnut is pretty superficial, kind of offensive even?

And when a few weeks later they come round to use your car because it's PinkChestnut's car and they are PinkChestnut, everyone knows that, the proof is clear because everyone calls them PinkChestnut, you will be fine with that because that's just good manners?

Manners are an interesting thing. When they are reciprocal they make the world a little nicer. But some people take advantage of manners, especially the manners of women who have been told from birth to put others' needs first. Some people rudely grasp and take, taking advantage of the manners of others being too polite, too well mannered to challenge them.

So the point is not, has never been, that people want to be referred to a certain way.

The point is that they want to be referred to as something they are not, and if society accepts that it has consequences for the people who actually are that thing.

But were they a sex offender because they were trans?

Who knows? Why is that relevant? He only got in because he claimed to be.

Exactly. The sex offender was a man who got his penis out next to a little girl in a women only spa. This was only possible because he claimed to be a woman.

But were they a sex offender because they were trans?

This election was largely about the economy and immigration, gender ideology took a backseat and may have blipped in the polls but that was really not the main issue or even a big enough issue to make a difference.

We saw more anti-trans officials lose seats or lose to the incumbents than the reverse.

I didn't see a single lawn sign about gender issues in my deep red area, but plenty about cost of groceries and immigration.

The sex offender was trans.

I mean, the purpose of this thread is to discuss whether the Democrats need to have an honest conversation about gender identity. So as a "centrist", what are your thoughts on that @PinkChesnut?

In person I find these arguments work very well to change hearts and minds.

Thing is, I find my arguments do the same. You're in a bubble, like everyone else, including me.

But the fact is, if you look at the swing states, the evidence suggests Trump's trans adverts were influential.

In person I find these arguments work very well to change hearts and minds. Online not as much, but it's always fun to engage in healthy debate.

As you said in your earlier post, the voting numbers in 2020 appear to be an anomaly compared to 2008, 2012 and 2016. Why were they so much higher than in previous years?

I'm in the UK and I'm no psephologist or demographic expert. Were there more registered voters in 2020? If so, why?

Maybe for a lot of American voters, Trump was President before, and the sky didn't fall in for them, life was OK, and they don't like the Dems and their talk much anyway...

Can I ask why @PinkChesnut you are so motivated to defend this ideology even at the cost of alienating people to the extent that they vote for the bad outcomes you have outlined?

Mmmm, no, I could be the most reasonable person on this and it wouldn't fly with you because you are entrenched in your beliefs and neither evidence nor perfectly framed arguments will sway you.

At this point your feelings matter more than hard facts. I'm centrist on this issue, and see the hardened attitudes in both camps.

It wasn't luck

Yes, luck.

Googling "times women have beaten men at sports" brings up a wealth of examples.

Why would I bother?

Because no one will take your comments seriously unless you do? Up to you whether you want to make any reasoned case for your views.

Oh, I don't know.

The Democrats have been very odd in choosing as their first two women to run as president, very unpopular people.

What is that even supposed to mean? You think she lost because of bad luck?

She wouldn't agree with you, btw. That's why they chaallenged the #200 mean, not the # 1 man.

Possibly people were more worried about Trump then? But for some reason are less so now. But I think what's more likely is those people turned out mainly against Trump and felt some kind of confidence about Biden. But they don't feel confident about Harris at all.

Thing is, as a feminist, I agree there's probably sexism at play. Unlike Kamala Harris who I imagine thinks it's her gender identity people are judging.

Why would I bother? I could produce a twenty-year long multi peer review study for you in support of my argument and it wouldn't matter to you.

You'll just say oh, bingo/cliche/whatever excuse to not critically consider other viewpoints than your own.

At a certain level of sport, or really anytime you're in the top of your field (and 203rd worldwide is still the top of the field), it is as much about luck as it is about anything else

You should read up on the match. He had a few beers and cigarettes. He was out of shape. They were young and fit. It wasn't about luck, but of course that's always the genderist line maybe try to come up with some less cliched arguments.

There are so many people who don't vote in the US, it's very possible there could be that kind of increased turn out.

Why would be the question.

Possibly people were more worried about Trump then? But for some reason are less so now. But I think what's more likely is those people turned out mainly against Trump and felt some kind of confidence about Biden. But they don't feel confident about Harris at all.