Is it too early for a post mortem?

Butters just called us nazis. That crosses a line and i hope mn take my report for that post seriously

Ok, show us what research shows us that medical treatments work for people who say they’re trans.

You said it’s demonstrable. Demonstrate it then.

Cass report disagrees with you.
Perhaps you are more qualified than Cass in this area?

This is one of your less coherent arguments.

Things can have multiple qualities at once.

Treatment can be imperfect but still life saving.

As the medical profession worldwide has been regularly finding for the best part of a century, transition is the best treatment we have for gender dysphoria.

It is imperfect.

So are knee replacements.

People can still have a rough ride even on top of imperfect medical technology, because society still has a massive transphobia problem, and it is getting worse.

You are part of the movement actively contributing to that.

When trans people are abused, their mental health is impacted.

Transition wouldn't be sunshine and flowers with or without the constant abuse. The abuse just makes it more difficult.

You are saying transition doesn't work, as part of a movement dedicated to making sure it doesn't work.

Despite your efforts, it remarkably still works.

Please post the links to the studies that support your position. You know we read them all so use the opportunity to 'educate' us.

There are many falsities in this post, and some have been already addressed.

The fact that you, Hatched, directed this post at MrsO made this a very personal attack. And shows just how little impulse control you seem to have.

However, this below is so overly emotional and dramatised that it exceeds those "hyperbole and emotional manipulation" comments I keep making.

"You're now the face of an international hate movement dedicated to destroying people like me. The evangelist right uses your words to ban our treatment, strip our legal protections and drive us from society. Nazis salute openly and turn up to your rallies while repeating your slogans. Well fucking done."

There is no 'international hate movement dedicated to destroying people like you' which I assume you to mean 'transgender people'. There just isn't. And if a group of people feel that decisions to re-prioritise the needs of female people where sex matters and prioritising children's needs is 'destroying' them, I think that says a great deal. It certainly puts just about everything you keep claiming under a different lens for anyone who has not been familiar with the issues and your posting style.

"The evangelist right uses your words to ban our treatment"

Ban treatment? Or ban the treatment being subsidised by others, particularly by governments? And again, treatment for what exactly? Treatment for a philosophical belief. Which other philosophical belief has treatments that result in turning physically healthy patients into life long medical patients with too often debilitating, life limiting and even life shortening results?

Seems to me that there is a group of people who are very angry for being treated equally, in many ways, compared to other groups in the population. Why should one group receive such low standards of care at their own campaigning?

"strip our legal protections"

I echo others here. What legal protections have been stripped? Or do you consider additional privileges that some countries have put into place to be 'legal protections'?

"drive us from society" is just more catastrophising hyperbole.

"Nazis salute openly and turn up to your rallies while repeating your slogans."

I think actually you need to get your facts correct here. Are you talking about the Melbourne rally? Because if that it is the case, this is falsehood combined with a truth.

Doesn't make it relevant or true.

Yes. Nazis openly saluted. The same group openly saluted at an ANZAC memorial service too, do you want to make the statement that ANZAC memorial services are somehow connected to that neo-nazi group? I mean, would you like to try that because it seems to fit your current flow of posting.

Now, what slogan did those nazi's repeat exactly? Please do provide this. Quite a few of us have looked at all the footage now and I don't think that anything they have said was a feminist slogan. You might like to check though. They were there to support another group of people who they stood directly behind. A group who also legally protests on the stairs of the Parliament House where the women's rally also legally was held.

Your haste in making such an accusation has meant you didn't do your research adequately.

Your posts are really highlighting incredibly well the tactics that some activist groups use. Including making a personal attack on a poster the way you did.

I do. Regularly. You just ignore them as you skim through looking for hooks to hang personal insults on.

Are you incapable of comprehending nuance and the possibility that more than one thing can be true at once, or do you choose to maliciously interpret everything I say?

The very fact that the post you quoted was responding to your rather measured post is highly significant. And yes. It was a personal attack. You became the scapegoat for that poster’s frustrations.

Yes eresh.

It has been pointed out by many of us over the past couple of years, hasn’t it ? Naming that particular issue often results in deletion though. However, I think the lurkers will better understand the dynamics of this thread with that link you have posted. Thank you.

Sorry meant to quote you @Beowulfa

All the toys have been flung from the pram now, and I still believe that the reality of biological sex is more important than the nebulous (and contested) concept of gender identity.

I will leave it to lurkers to decide whether it's "tantrum" behaviour to care about child safeguarding, medical ethics and single sex rape services.

It's pure projection.

narcissistfamilyfiles.com/category/the-narcissist-family-files/the-narcissists-funhouse-of-mirroring-and-projection/

this

The more I read, the more I think it was fundamentally unkind for anyone to pretend to believe in sex change from the beginning. Surely there was another way.

IdyllicDay, I'm so very sorry that happened to you.

What legal protections have been taken from you?

It's all so very me! me! me! isn't it? That male agressive energy without a suitable outlet running rampant, erect almost.
The post you quote is so full of assumptions that make no sense. It feels like someone top of their lungs screaming at the whole world because the world isn't the way they want.

Oh, and I read this morning that Biden is going back on his word and issuing a presidential pardon for his Wrong Un son. But the Democrats were the choice for those with moral integrity!

The last decade of your life has been one long tantrum ever since you discovered trans people not only exist but expect to be treated like human beings.

Treating trans identifying people like they are human beings means acknowledging that humans, as mammals, cannot change sex (check out the clause on primogeniture in the GRA- the writers of the law knew that women can't really ever become men). It means having the same human rights as everyone in the workplace, in healthcare etc. It doesn't mean additional rights such as falsifying documents of public record, or the right to free cosmetic surgery on demand. It doesn't mean forcing others to lie or pretend. Or the right to overrule child safeguarding.

I will leave it to lurkers to decide whether it's "tantrum" behaviour to care about child safeguarding, medical ethics and single sex rape services.

That's a very revealing post. It's a hyperbolic personal attack - but I'm not reporting it as it showcases everything that's distorted about this ideology.

The contrast between your self centred posts & the posts of women on here is stark. We speak about the vulnerable people under the trans umbrella: children thinking their growing bodies are wrong and changing sex is the cure. The young having their bodies and minds harmed by experimental drugs & brutal experimental surgery. So many of them mentally unwell yet receiving no treatment for their co morbidities. The decriminalisation of indecent exposure and flashing by forcing women and girls to undress in front of men. The destruction of women's sport. The negative impact on society by upending the social contract and our laws, all intent on enforcing on society the lie that sex change is possible.

There are countless places online where you could post & receive unqualified approval for your self absorbed comments. Yet here, where women gather, is where you choose, berating, misrepresenting and smearing women.

All showcased in your post.

No technology will be ‘perfect’ unless we have a machine that will completely rebuild a body to specifications from the atom up while retaining 100% memory.

And then we still have the issue of a male always having the foundation experiences as a male never a female.

So then we have to have a machine that will revert the body back to being an infant with no previous memory. Which will have many ethical impacts on humanity. And the only way to really do it is to turn all of time back so the previous version never existed which means every other human will be directly impacted.

Changing human sex categories is impossible.

And no male person can ever experience life as a female person no matter what changes are made. Or when. Because no human can change sex.

No male person can be a girl or a woman.

the sociopathic lack of any sympathy at all for females, for rape victims really gave the game away. I could look past it if they only said a single line or word of acknowledgement/empathy. If they only said one word, even just one. Nope, radio silence. No acknowledgement, no sympathy, not even an attempt. Nothing. Like as if they're a block of ice.

YY, exactly.

Oh you mean the study that found that life is still difficult after transition because technology is imperfect and transphobia still exists? No shit, any one of us could have told you that if you'd listen.

Technology is imperfect = it's not actually possible to change sex.

Transphobia still exists = most people, especially some very disobedient and unsympathetic women, don't buy that it is possible to change sex or that males can be women and aren't prepared to act like they do believe it is, because it is harmful to us.

Any one of us could have told you that if you'd listen.

All the words in the world, no matter how genuinely felt or respectfully expressed, can't change the fact that some humans have female bodies and for those of us that do there are physical, emotional and social consequences.

It's not an act of hate to say we want this fact about ourselves to be recognised and we believe we have the moral right to put in place physical, social and political measures to support us as we live in a society that is still organised around male norms, male wants and male expectations, whether that is a female-only lesbian social event, a female-only STEM mentoring group, a female-only rape support group or a female-only private space for personal care.

It IS an act of hate to say we should not be allowed these things.

I don’t believe there ever was an intention with some posters to ‘engage’ even from the start. Like compassion, communication with some people who come to post on this board only goes one way.

In saying that, all those reading and interacting with these posts and particularly those over time do learn a huge amount from the interactions. We keep being told we need to get to know people with transgender identities, and through these interactions we certainly ‘get to know’ them.

It is another of those inconsistencies that some groups hate being exposed. Apparently, we are supposed to believe that getting to know someone face to face is going to be different to getting to know someone from on-line interaction.

I think we are supposed to believe that someone’s on line interactions over time are not indicative of their true thoughts on the topic. I think we are supposed to believe that how they interact on line over time is a separate persona and not really them. I could not really understand why else people keep saying to us that we need to get to know more people with transgender identities in real life and not on line.

I doubt the ones we interact with on line are any different in person.

Of course, I know that people mean get to know different people with transgender identities because they are not like the ones posting on social media or who are policy influencers. Yet, it is the ones influencing policy that we need to get to know because they are shaping the policy, particularly policies impacting our own children. And don’t forget that this poster says they are in that position of influencing children’s decision through offering active counsel in their community group.

The ‘you need to get to know them in real life’ is just another inconsistency that ends up rendering the concept to be incoherent.