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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Keir Starmer Government urged to clarify definition of sex by the Tories

84 replies

IwantToRetire · 14/11/2024 01:20

Shadow equalities minister Claire Coutinho has pressed the Government to clarify the definition of sex. Equalities minister Bridget Phillipson said it was “important that providers have clarity in this area”.

She added that providers “have the right to restrict access to service on the basis of biological sex” under the Equality Act 2010.

In the Commons on Wednesday, Coutinho said: “In the election the Conservative Party committed to clarifying the definition of sex in the Equality Act 2010 to protect women’s rights.

“At the end of this month For Women Scotland vs Scottish Ministers will be heard in the UK Supreme Court, this case will have far-reaching consequences for sex-based rights. So can the Government assure the House that it’s clear that the definition of sex in the Equality Act 2010 means biological sex?”

During women and equalities questions, Phillipson replied: “I won’t comment on ongoing cases, but what I can be clear to her about is that the Equality Act 2010 does set out that providers, for example, have the right to restrict access to service on the basis of biological sex.

“This Government is proud of our achievements in legislating for the Equality Act. We will make sure that providers can continue to support single-sex exemptions. And it is important that providers have clarity in this area, and I’ll be happy to work with her to make sure that is the case.”

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-government-urged-clarify-34102096

Tories could strip Holyrood of power to pass gender laws after general election

The Tories have said that they will change the Equality Act to define the protected characteristic of sex as “biological sex”.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tories-could-strip-holyrood-power-32946685

OP posts:
bombastix · 14/11/2024 19:25

How sweet that the Tories think that Labour will pick up the agenda they failed to implement themselves during 14 years. They must think Starmer fell out of a tree.

duc748 · 14/11/2024 19:22

Don't you just get the feeling that nobody in govt particularly wants 'clarification'? That there's no enthusiasm whatsoever to press for change (to use an unfortunate term 😛) to either the GRA or the Equality Act.

JanesLittleGirl · 14/11/2024 19:14

Hoardasurass · 14/11/2024 18:36

Not really if they simply clarify that sex in the equality act does not include sex modified by a grc things would be better. Also if the government would mount a large publicity campaign telling all businesses and public bodies that men who don't have a grc are not entitled to access to women's spaces and making them use the males is not discrimination.
No need to change anything else

This is already covered in EQA2010:

^EqA Sch3 Part7 Para28

Gender reassignment

28(1)A person does not contravene section 29, so far as relating to gender reassignment discrimination, only because of anything done in relation to a matter within sub-paragraph (2) if the conduct in question is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

(2)The matters are—

(a)the provision of separate services for persons of each sex;

(b)the provision of separate services differently for persons of each sex;

(c)the provision of a service only to persons of one sex.^

People with a GRC have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment and can be excluded from a single sex space or service where that exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Among the list of legitimate aims are safety, dignity and privacy. So what could be a proportionate means?

Provision of third spaces would be proportionate.

Signposting to an equivalent service that will provide the service would be proportionate.

Exclusion would be proportionate if the building could not be modified to provide third spaces or the cost would be prohibitive.

There are probably other proportionate means.

The problem is that service providers cannot be forced to provide single sex spaces and services so the default is mixed sex and suck it up if you are unhappy.

Hoardasurass · 14/11/2024 18:36

JustSpeculation · 14/11/2024 18:10

I don't see how you can get away from the "proportionate" bit. Otherwise you're saying that women can have single sex spaces just because they want to. But then you run into the problem that the EA2010 protects everyone, not specific groups. So that means that men can have single sex spaces just because they want to as well. Then you're back to blokes clubs settling matters behind closed doors.

Not really if they simply clarify that sex in the equality act does not include sex modified by a grc things would be better. Also if the government would mount a large publicity campaign telling all businesses and public bodies that men who don't have a grc are not entitled to access to women's spaces and making them use the males is not discrimination.
No need to change anything else

duc748 · 14/11/2024 18:31

And that "can provide single-sex services" is very different from "must provide single-sex services".

JustSpeculation · 14/11/2024 18:10

I don't see how you can get away from the "proportionate" bit. Otherwise you're saying that women can have single sex spaces just because they want to. But then you run into the problem that the EA2010 protects everyone, not specific groups. So that means that men can have single sex spaces just because they want to as well. Then you're back to blokes clubs settling matters behind closed doors.

IwantToRetire · 14/11/2024 18:00

The only plus I can see in this statement ie there is no issue because if you are very good and show how it is proportionate there can be single sex services, is that they did not revert to that terrible phrase "safe spaces"!

OP posts:
frenchnoodle · 14/11/2024 13:31

The problem with this is they could make It a lot worse.

IwantToRetire · 14/11/2024 01:24

Sorry made a mess of OP as accidentally posted, and now cant get rid of image and newspaper heading which is not the one the OP is about.

Link for the article about debate in HoC in the OP.

And again here https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-government-urged-clarify-34102096

Keir Starmer Government urged to clarify definition of sex by the Tories

Equalities minister Bridget Phillipson said it was “important that providers have clarity in this area”.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-government-urged-clarify-34102096

OP posts: