Keir Starmer Government urged to clarify definition of sex by the Tories

If people wanted the bill to have a mandate they shouldn't have worked against it

It's pretty simple really Labour voters now talking about changing the tide when a huge mandate shows it's not a priority, they are part of that outcome

If they feel strongly about changing Starmer on this go for it. Women here have done a lot, against much criticism, but if they feel strongly enough they can do it. No one is stopping them

So somehow the Tories can just get things done, while Labour has to be cultivated?

Even parties in power can't just change guidance, or develop good policy, at the drop of a hat. That's true for Labour too and we'd be fools to expect that they can make substantive change on any issue in a moment.

But surely you must see that having gone from a place where they were already part the "getting their attention" bit, and were actively trying to draw together the threads of policy and legislative change, it is a huge step backwards to now have to try and convince Labour that something needs to be done at all? Without even any assurance they can be convinced.

I'd also note - rushing through policy for the sake of it tends to produce bad policy. This is a trend across the English speaking world that needs to be stamped out. Virtue signalling good intentions with shoddy legislation is not a valuable thing to do.

Yes I think that is right actually - he acts entirely legalistically when it suits.

About the only way to place pressure is therefore to speak the same language and draft a bill to do that. Truss did a bill that was inadequate, but she provided a template. I am not much of a fan of hers, but it was actually a smart thing she did. I always wondered where it came from.

I haven't changed my view on this, the posts are all still up for the sentiment pre GE and now

I don't get the switch, but if you want to do your own bill feel free to pressure Labour

The one thing that the Conservatives achieved was having a consultation on self id. Then listening to it.

I dont think Starmer will do that, being more about following the law than listening to the public. He seems to believe that the fundamental premise is sound and its possible to allow more men to have GRC and state more clarily that woman can, not must, have single sex spaces, and everything is fine and everyone will be happy.

I don’t see any MP with his ear who is prepared to tell him differently.

I want to avoid this, but we are continuing down the path of the law only being tweaked when a major safeguarding fail hits the news.

That is silly. You don’t know anything about me and attributing actions to me that aren’t true. Please stop it. I haven’t done the same to you, so please be courteous even if we disagree on our political leanings.

Go for it then.

I recall the posters working hard against the EqA at the time, why did you put so much energy into working against it anyway?

It's bizarre for this to now emerge after that, but I guess that's Labour for you

Can we do it FWR?

I think you are attempting to make this personal to me. I don’t support the Tory Party. But I am content to work with other like minded people on a bill.

Why did you work so hard against what Badenoch was putting forward at the last GE?

Why can’t this forum draft a bill! Why all the passivity? If a politician won’t, why can’t we try?

or have we all given up? I don’t get the passivity here

People voted for Labour remember I assume as you did, and gave them a large mandate to not do what Badenoch proposed at the GE

So why are you NOW asking for this but didn't pre GE?

The whole point of voting was to either give mandate or not to that, and you and others didn't.

But I do! This should cross party issue.

Truss actually do a bill. Her own side didn’t support it enough either. Labour were in opposition

Why is there such a dearth of actual action on this? Can’t Badenoch, who has the knowledge, actually do it?

And if she won’t or can’t, can’t we do it ourselves?

We already had the farce of Labour at a debate where they stomped all over it. It was Truss' bill iirc

Why wouldn't it be more of the same?

It did jack in terms of getting Labour to respond to anything

I think you're still trying to point a finger at Badenoch for some bizarre reason when it's Labour happy to sit on this. Why don't you pressure your side? Ask them to put forward a good bill which would actually get MP votes as they have the numbers.

I know, wait until 2028. I mean really we could all do with discussing this for four years, put zero pressure on Labour but ask a few questions on it. I mean that really raises the issue well

But doesn’t such a move do the following

a) raise the issue
b) force the Labour Party to respond
c) put pressure on them to refuse it or say why not
d) indicate the force of the argument on gender criticality

Why would you not do this in other words?

Badenoch presumably did do some work on this. Why doesn’t she get a backbencher to present a bill with this change? She’s got the knowledge now. She could draft it.

From a position of much lower base, who would vote what she put forward through

Why do that to such a Labour stacked HoC?

I want change, I'm guessing you're not keen?

I am neither of those things. I have just made a suggestion in just those terms.

You do understand that there's a long boring process to change a complicated law such as the equality act and the 1st step was to get the equality department under falkner to admit that it needs changing which Badenoch did and then she got on with writing an amendment and getting the support she needed to make the changes. If Sunak had not called a snap election then it would have been fixed by now.
I'm no fan of the tories but you should atleast be honest when you're attacking them otherwise you come across as just another Labour/tra bot

Yes it is! That’s the point. Respond to some public pressure by setting it out.

This happens all the time. Take the current law and restate it explicitly.

I think it’s not all that sensible to imagine that hanging to 2028 with the assumption that Badenoch wins. It is pretty unambitious.

Badenoch presumably did do some work on this. Why doesn’t she get a backbencher to present a bill with this change? She’s got the knowledge now. She could draft it.

I would guess it will set out a series of statutory exceptions where a single sex service is justified and thus that is much more easily defended in law than the broader change above.

Isnt that the current position?

Single sex services are permitted when proportional, and women having to take service providers to court if they think they are being discriminated against when they àre not provided?

The only people benefiting are lawyers.

The US will shift the Overton window on this now, it would have been harder if Harris had not lost

It's a long game to change this but I think it can be done, hopefully

The problem is by the next election Labour will have " modernised" the GRA making it easier for men to change their passport, birth certificate etc......thus embedding the concept of 'gender identity' even further. And i'm not sure I have much confidence in Bridget Phillipson, as minister for Education, either...especially with the main teaching union so fully captured.

If Badenoch wins in 2028 then the equality act will be amended she will have power to push it through. That is IF of course and she has to survive as Tory leader till 2028.

It is highly likely though any Tory leader will run on the same pledge because it is clear the wheels are falling off the gender wagon. Reform certainly will saying biology is real and the Tories will not want to be outflanked.

As for Labour the party is divided are still trying to do gender stuff and also say biology is real and Cass is true at the same time. If this long heralded Conversion Therapy bill ever arrives we will see what they actually THINK. Basically Starmer does not want to talk or think about thus stuff and it shows.

He does however want to win and as the election in the states shows genderism is not popular.

If Reeves continues to have this kind of growth announced today it'll be what damages Labour

They won't progress anything for women but next GE there will be more of an open goal where I can see this coming up

It was obvious Labour were just obfuscating on well pretty much everything so I wouldn't expect anything for women in their term