The Scouts and the non-binary butterfly 🦋

You're right it's nothing like a pointless moral panic. Well done.

Nothing like a pointless moral panic to rile up the emotionally unintelligent.

Calling all young people, parents, and carers!
Here’s a chance for our youth members to shape what Scouts should look like in 10 years’ time. Parents should complete the survey with your child. Follow the link to take part forms.office.com/e/r3T5qqGkgz

There is currently a survey underway.
I haven't done it yet but maybe a concerted push to make Scouting HQ read the Cass report and stop pushing the rainbow agenda.

Msmoonpie · Yesterday 10:42

Butterflies can actually be both male and female - but it is a developmental issue. Its known as gynandromorphism.

Thanks for that fascinating piece of information, which led me on a little diversion to read about it and look at some images of them!

At the moment it's one activity that qualifies as part of the World Challenge badge. There are lots of other ways of completing that section so it can be easily avoided. There's no "inclusivity" badge per se.
The activity itself does specify that pronouns are completely optional and you shouldn't be forced into sharing yours but it does strongly imply that you should use pronouns that other people choose.

It talks about other people's "beliefs" but it does not explicitly state that you're also allowed not to believe in gender or non sex-based pronouns. I think the video is the worst part because of the way it assumes that you'll comply with other people's language choices.

Well I was sceptical, as you can see from my previous post, and - to be very honest - wondered if it was a plant to see how 'gullible' those GC dinosaurs could be.
But it's real, it exists, and it's on the Scouting UK website.
It's great that sensible leaders like you choose to ignore it, but Scouting UK is the representative and management body for scouting, and what it promotes on its website is not entirely unrelated to public perception of scouting - Billy the NB Butterfly is on the Scouting UK website, incredible as that seemed to me until I was proven wrong.

As a leader, I haven't even heard of "Billy the none binary butterfly". We are very inclusive in scouting but certainly do not try to "brainwash" our young people and do still do traditional scouting activities such as camping, outdoor and adventurous activity. We do some disability awareness and teaching young people new skills. I think the news just love to post anything negative about scouting. I did read the article yesterday and was just shocked at how ridiculous it was.

The thing with Scouting is it's down to the individual leaders. Most leaders are not going to 'teach' anything controversial, if they have any experience at all they won't want to upset any parents.
When we used to do a session on drugs and alcohol to cover a badge criteria we'd get Hope international in and all parents were rewarded about the topic.

The scouting Facebook groups are rife with Woke idiots who jump on you for saying something as simple as let kids be kids and even implying that we should be teaching kids to love who they are not pushing them to change is shot down.

Generally your average volunteer in scouting is a parent or someone who's been involved for a long time. We tend to focus on Scouting(fires, camps, skills for life) the other bits are more of a tick box to get the critera.

Most times I hope this particular criteria is covered by talking about disabilities, hidden and obvious or sex discrimination.

“To show respect for people, we need to use the pronouns that they feel most comfortable with.”

need to use….😖

This is such a shame. The scouts was formational for my son. I would have hated to have him to be indoctrinated by this misogynist and unscientific rubbish.

Every day's an education on mumsnet. Gynandromorphic butterflies are a marvel of nature.

Fortunately our scout group leaders are sane. When my son's disability was diagnosed the leaders did everything they could to adapt to his needs and support him taking part in their activities . They are everything the scouts used to stand for and usually do.

This week we will have a family oriented fireworks night with a bit of hot food cooked up by the older lads and a 'best guy' competition for the younger ones.

I'm very grateful for the opportunities they've given my boys, and as it's a mixed sex group, if I had a daughter I'd have happily sent her too.

This is interesting - although the badge criterion talks about attitude to gender OR disability, all 9 of the suggested activities on the website relate to the gender/LGBTQ+/pride option. No activities there whatsoever about disability rights/equality/prejudices. Obviously lots of scout leaders will be able to think up their own activities anyway, but the uneven emphasis is quite striking.

My son's group certainly does a lot on disability.

Its aimed at one small criterion on one Scout badge (10-14).
They need to take part in an activity which explores beliefs and attitudes about gender or disability. (In the context of sport, music or fashion).

The Scout website provides loads of activity ideas which we can use or ignore.

So some Scouts may have done it... but there are a lot better activities for that particular criteria.

I'm a Scout Leader and I won't do stuff like this. I can't lie to kids, humans can't change sex.

One of our young leaders ran an evening recently which included gender equality. I was worried it would include TQ++++ stuff, but she just went with how saying girls can't play football, boys can't do dance etc was ridiculous and both can do anything they want. Which is exactly what Scouts should be saying.

You can't say anything gender critical on the Facebook pages, whole posts get deleted.

Hmmm beavers are on it well but scouts it's just all un named meetings...

Yes ours do too. They also from experience, make sure parents are ok with quite a lot of the things they do.

<logs on to scan the activities for once>

Luckily our cubs group use the Online Scout Manager website so we can see the whole programme for the term. I keep a close eye in case anything concerning creeps in but so far so good. I think whether groups do this kind of activity will be very dependent on the individual leaders. Ours mostly are local dads who don't seem to have any vested political or activist nature!

🤣

Dwayne below

I'm going to be bringing this up with our troop.

My kids are all or have been scouts and it'sbeenagreat experience. Luckily it was nothing like this. That game looks tedious.

Butterflies can actually be both male and female - but it is a developmental issue.

Its known as gynandromorphism.

Not that this makes it any less ridiculous as it’s it isn’t “non binary” in any way. These individuals have a sex - but during development they end up with cells for both male and female within their bodies - often with male on one side and female on the other although there are other presentations.

Non binary isn’t real. Everyone has a sex. Some people just choose not to go along with the sex based stereotypes.

What a pile of shite. My nearly 12 year old would not be interested

This is the video they show. Australian.

This is against kcsie. I can't remember if scouts have to follow kcsie but I thought youth groups were supposed to for their own protection.