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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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WarriorN · 06/11/2024 19:04

dunBle · 06/11/2024 14:01

Hmm, for some reason the screenshot didn't attach. Will try again here.

Oh interesting.

Scared of the menz in tights then.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 06/11/2024 16:42

Boiledbeetle · 06/11/2024 16:13

Asked “how do you stop it? Do you go to the sports leagues? Do you go to the Olympics?”, he replied: “You just ban it. The president bans it. You just don’t let it happen.”

Oooh! This could get interesting!

He's never had a particularly firm grasp on what Presidential powers cover, and with the mess of federal and state laws over there I have no idea how it might play out.

But certainly could be interesting.

ThreeWordHarpy · 06/11/2024 16:32

A pissing contest between the IOC and President Trump?

Deer Popcorn GIF
Boiledbeetle · 06/11/2024 16:13

lcakethereforeIam · 06/11/2024 15:41

This is a wrinkle I hadn't thought of

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2024/11/06/donald-trump-olympics-collision-course-transgender-ban-vow/

It won't affect Khelif I imagine. I doubt he'll be competing in the next games. Then, of course, Trump seems quite lazy, would he put the work in to make California and the IOC comply? Or will the IOC blink first?

Sorry, if this is a bit of a derail but I didn't want to start another Trump thread.

Asked “how do you stop it? Do you go to the sports leagues? Do you go to the Olympics?”, he replied: “You just ban it. The president bans it. You just don’t let it happen.”

Oooh! This could get interesting!

lcakethereforeIam · 06/11/2024 15:41

This is a wrinkle I hadn't thought of

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2024/11/06/donald-trump-olympics-collision-course-transgender-ban-vow/

It won't affect Khelif I imagine. I doubt he'll be competing in the next games. Then, of course, Trump seems quite lazy, would he put the work in to make California and the IOC comply? Or will the IOC blink first?

Sorry, if this is a bit of a derail but I didn't want to start another Trump thread.

Donald Trump and Olympics on collision course over transgender ban vow

A key plank of Trump’s successful re-election campaign was promise to ‘keep men out of women’s sports’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2024/11/06/donald-trump-olympics-collision-course-transgender-ban-vow

Maaate · 06/11/2024 14:35

dunBle · 06/11/2024 14:01

Hmm, for some reason the screenshot didn't attach. Will try again here.

Well...

Sipping Tea Time GIF by VH1
RoyalCorgi · 06/11/2024 14:32

It's a grim state of affairs when a scientist decides to pretend to believe in a piece of complete nonsense for the sake of his career rather than stand up for science and reality. He clearly has no sense of shame.

dunBle · 06/11/2024 14:01

Hmm, for some reason the screenshot didn't attach. Will try again here.

Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
dunBle · 06/11/2024 13:58

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/11/2024 14:40

Thanks for the link to the Cluster F podcast. The Rutherford episode was - taken in isolation - quite good. But added to the knowledge that he closes his eyes so firmly to his own bias (despite mentioning several times that he is priviledged because of his sex), it is infuriating. His cognitive dissonance must be off the scale.

This suggests it's more cowardice than cognitive dissonance:
https://x.com/giagia/status/1853559929782870475

x.com

https://x.com/giagia/status/1853559929782870475

Projectme · 06/11/2024 13:17

Colour me surprised Sherlock.

I'm so pleased that there are some journalists out there determined to get to the truth of the matter and have it published.

IOC are fully to blame for this farce. Medals should be stripped immediately and he should be banned from entering any Olympics again.

puffyisgood · 06/11/2024 12:57

lcakethereforeIam · 06/11/2024 11:16

For completeness, also in the Times

https://archive.ph/KHxQa

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/boxing/article/imane-khelif-legal-action-boxing-gender-row-nf0wk3bls

Much the same, long quote from the IOC which condemns abuse (fair enough) but, to me, reads like they're preparing their excuses. Particularly the long list of other organisations that followed the same eligibility rules.

there doesn't seem to be any suggestion there that the claims aren't true, really just that the it's wrong for the information to be shared because [reasons].

duc748 · 06/11/2024 12:43

Oops!

Chersfrozenface · 06/11/2024 12:27

There are four major boxing organisations - World Boxing Association (WBA), the World Boxing Council (WBC), the International Boxing Federation (IBF) and the World Boxing Organization (WBO).

I don't know what policies the above have on routine sex testing.

Then there's the national organisations. USA Boxing is happy to allow biological men who identify as women to compete against women - and vice versa, as seen with Manuel.

The International Boxing Association (IBA) of course did disqualify Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif, though only, I believe, after complaints, so doesn't seem to have routine sex testing, but anyway is concerned with amateur boxing.

duc748 · 06/11/2024 12:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Chersfrozenface · 06/11/2024 12:05

MagpiePi · 06/11/2024 11:52

But would any female boxers be willing to fight him? In the olympics you have to fight whoever you are drawn against but, surely it is a choice in the professional sphere?

I will bring up, once again, the difficulty transman Patricio Manuel has had getting fights (total bouts: 4 in 6 years).

In 2021 Manuel whined in a puff piece on a trans propaganda website that opponents were refusing to get into the ring with Manuel.

The website had to admit that though USA Boxing had permitted Manuel to compete at the professional level, opponents could still decline to spar with anyone they chose.

I am, of course, presuming that biologically female boxers have the same freedom in this regard as biologically male boxers.

Datun · 06/11/2024 11:54

MagpiePi · 06/11/2024 11:52

But would any female boxers be willing to fight him? In the olympics you have to fight whoever you are drawn against but, surely it is a choice in the professional sphere?

I agree. But I can easily see people doing it for money. And who knows how much horse trading goes on behind-the-scenes.

MagpiePi · 06/11/2024 11:52

Shortshriftandlethal · 05/11/2024 15:08

I mentioned it earlier, not sure if it has been mentioned again...that Khelif is now seeklng to box professionally...presumably in the female category.

But would any female boxers be willing to fight him? In the olympics you have to fight whoever you are drawn against but, surely it is a choice in the professional sphere?

Datun · 06/11/2024 11:21

Theeyeballsinthesky · 06/11/2024 11:19

I would love him to Sue! Bring it all out in the open just like Caster semanya did

Same.

Even if the actual content of the tests isn't allowed to be publicised, the sunlight will be invaluable.

There will always be men who want to muscle in on women's sports, the people to target are those who let them.

He wants to go professional now. I can't see him making much of a living if he's not allowed to be in the women's category. So he definitely still has skin in this game.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 06/11/2024 11:19

I would love him to Sue! Bring it all out in the open just like Caster semanya did

Helleofabore · 06/11/2024 11:03

I am with the bring it on crowd, cake thanks!

lcakethereforeIam · 06/11/2024 11:01

He shall sue!

https://archive.ph/A8LkM seconds away, round two the paywall

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2024/11/06/imane-khelif-olympics-gender-row-legal-medical-claims/

I notice in the line up picture posted just upthread, Khelif has another man's arm round his broad manly shoulders. While no-one is touching the other boxer.

Talking of pictures, the one the Telegraph has illustrated the article with...

Imane Khelif: Boxer at centre of Olympics gender row takes legal action over medical claims

Algerian is taking action in response to reports in France claiming the boxer has male XY chromosomes

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2024/11/06/imane-khelif-olympics-gender-row-legal-medical-claims

monkeyspaw · 06/11/2024 01:13

CoteDAzur · 05/11/2024 07:46

"It is haram in Islam to wear clothing of the other sex. "

This is utter nonsense. "Muslim" is not one way of life, just like Catholic, Anglican, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon etc are not.

"Clothing of the other sex" - You mean like trousers, suits, and shorts? Muslim women wear them all the time.

"Guidelines of practicing sports in Islam for women... far removed from the eyes of men, whether they are trainers, teachers, students, administrators or spectators. ... it is not permissible to take pictures of women’s sport, so that they will not fall into the hands of men who will look at them"

Again, nonsense. You seem to have no idea that women's sport exists in Muslim countries, and that Muslim women in sports are visible, photographed, and promoted, regularly appearing in international competitions.

Feast your eyes on Turkey's women's volleyball team, who happen to be the current European champions. Their coach is an Italian man (Daniele Santarelli) and one of their star players is an out lesbian (Ebrar Karakurt). Like all other volleyball players around the world, they play in tiny shorts. They are hugely popular, photographed all the time, and they appear in ads for various products from sanitary pads to sports equipment. In their shorts.

"The game should not involve physical fighting where the face or head are struck."

Again, nonsense. I give you Turkish female boxer Esra Yildiz Kahraman who got bronze medal at the Paris Olympics a few months ago.

Your Muslim friend who told you all this sounds like a fundamentalist. You should try to meet some more Muslims whose views and lives are far more compatible with ours.

My friend is definitely not a fundamentalist, but yes, she is very modest. In 5 years of knowing her I have never seen her hair or arms or bare legs. She might wear loose pants - but they are women's pants. Clothing such as suits and shorts and trousers are WOMEN's suits and shorts and trousers. And more to the point men don't wear women's clothes.There is a specific hadith that references this (Book 17, Hadith 122 ref courtesy of friend). My point is that however sad Khelif's situation may be, he is a man, and his clothing style indicates he knows this.He's from a very traditional area of Algeria. He's not dressing like his mother or his sisters, is he? (see photo below)

Is Esra Yildiz Muslim? Just because she is Turkish doesn't mean she must be, surely. Her boxing profile doesn't say. She is still wearing women's clothes, though. Same with the basketball team - WOMEN's clothes.
I didn't say there are no female muslim boxers, or muslim women playing sport - just that many traditional muslims don't approve. You seem to miss your own point that not all Muslims are the same.

My friend is very against women boxing or contact sports. She has more knowledge of Islam than I do, obviously, and pardon me if I choose to go with what she says, rather than an internet poster who appears to be trying to excuse a man in women's sport.

The photo of clothing posted earlier is disingenuous as those shorts/hijab are still women's clothes - sporting clothes made especially for Muslim women.
Muslim female boxers CAN choose to wear modest clothes, and also have female support team: photo 1

Khelif is from a traditional part of Algeria, from a traditional family, with traditional clothing mores - his mother wears hijab: photo 2
Photo 3 shows Khelif with a female sparring partner and their support teams. He appears to be wearing a male groin guard. Photo 4 shows male groin guard. Photo 5 shows typical female groin guard.

Perhaps YOU should try to meet some Muslim people who don't conform to YOUR idea of what is "compatible" with your views?

Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
Imane Khelif medical report reported in Reduxx
lcakethereforeIam · 05/11/2024 22:21

Men, they allowed men to beat up women. Then gave them medals for doing it.