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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Analysing Historical Mass Psychogenic Epidemics & Gender Dysphoria

61 replies

UtopiaPlanitia · 27/10/2024 22:18

Mia Hughes, of the WPATH Files report, recently posted a tweet regarding a lecture she gave at Stanford University. I thought I'd post the link here for those who are interested in watching the seminar:

https://x.com/_CryMiaRiver/status/1850196070485176720

'On Thursday, I gave a seminar at Stanford on my favourite subject: the epidemic of gender dysphoria in historical context. Using Ian Hacking's framework of the ecological niche of transient mental illnesses, I examine epidemics of fugue, hysteria, multiple personality and trans.'

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FarriersGirl · 30/10/2024 15:40

Not everyone that terms themselves a psychologist has any recognised form of scientific or clinical qualification and there is a strong undercurrent of pseudo-science on a range of topics. Even in the medically qualified field there is often considerable variation in opinion among professionals and they do have form for falling down diagnostic 'rabbit holes' as mentioned already. There is not even agreement on what is contained in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual [DSM] Although it is from the US it does have influence here in the UK.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 15:03

Nothingeverything · 30/10/2024 14:56

What I don't get is the number of psychologists promoting this stuff. Surely they must know about these past episodes? Do they not join the dots?

I think it’s hubris. As a society we feel we can laugh at the lack of knowledge previous generations had but we forget to be aware that we can make the same mistakes that they did.

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UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 15:02

Delphinium, it seems obvious that these psychogenic illnesses can be a way for the person with the illness to control the people around them, it also allows them to evade responsibilities and gains them attention. These people are expressing their distress through a culturally-sanctioned symptom pool that changes as society changes.

And doctors and psychiatrists who feel they are toiling in obscurity can ride the wave of the epidemic to public recognition. One of the American doctors who was part of the multiple personality craze is also a huge part of the current gender identity epidemic.

And now that we have social media, it allows parents who are inclined to gaining social standing to use this psychogenic epidemic to do so.

When we’re caught up in the mass phenomenon, too many people are invested in believing it to be, or promoting it as, a real thing.

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Nothingeverything · 30/10/2024 14:56

What I don't get is the number of psychologists promoting this stuff. Surely they must know about these past episodes? Do they not join the dots?

Delphinium20 · 30/10/2024 14:51

@UtopiaPlanitia so many people are using gender identity as a chance for radically rebranding themselves and women like this are rebranding themselves as uber kind and trendy and better than others.

Spot on. I know of this woman through social circles (tho her kids are younger, so I don't know her well) but your take absolutely fits if one looks through her past social. She was part-time pre-school teacher w/ power DH. She suddenly found politics at the same time her son found gender. Now, she's no longer in her DH shadow, she's in the cool women's club and leading the pack.

I'm from a family of teachers and respect the hell out of them...so no shade there, but it was obvious she was ambitious and this rebranding was easier than a slogging career that takes you away from your kids.

DameMaud · 30/10/2024 14:50

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:29

Absolutely, and happening concurrently with the gender identity epidemic but somehow society deemed one to be psychogenic illness spread by social media and one to be a genuine expression of identity 🤷‍♀️

Exactly!

Just one example of the very weird lack of dot-joining:

Paula Durlofsky, Ph.D., a psychologist in private practice in Bryn Mawr, Pa., told Psychiatric News the problems associated with teens’ screen time “really underscore the power that social media has to shape young minds, minds that are still developing and so vulnerable and impressionable.” She advises clinicians to routinely ask patients about their social media and technology use during initial consultations and how they think it’s affecting them. “Keep in mind that social media use may be a factor in their condition.”

Ps. I'd also like to thank you for posting the webinar Utopia.
Mia is always so good to listen to.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:42

I hope your reckoning of time is correct @WomenShouldStillWinWomensSportsIsBack

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WomenShouldStillWinWomensSportsIsBack · 30/10/2024 14:40

She mentioned that previous outbreaks of mass psychogenic illness lasted around 20 years and I'm hoping that this particular psychogenic epidemic will disperse in a similar amount of time (even sooner would be better).
If this is the case, we should be reaching the tail end of it soon. The social contagion at my university was already rife around 2010.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:40

That’s a very good point Rapid - both of these phenomena are a form of personal transubstantiation that arises from personal neuroses and societal influences expressed through the current symptom pool of our culture.

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RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/10/2024 14:37

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:02

There was an even older mass psychogenic craze where people thought they were made out of glass. Even though we are a more recent society, with better science and understanding of the world and the human body, we are not immune to crazes and hysterias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_delusion

’In the 16th and 17th centuries of Europe, glass became a valuable commodity. It was regarded as a magical, alchemical object.[2] Associated with fragility and luxury, glass influenced the way noblemen of early Europe perceived their esteemed positions in society. This fixation on a novel material contributed to the manifestation of the delusion. Edward Shorter, a historian of psychiatry from the University of Toronto, attributes the rise of the delusion in 17th century Europe to the novelty of glass material, stating that "throughout history, the inventive unconscious mind has pegged its delusions on to new materials and the technological advances of the age."[3]

Concentration of the glass delusion among the wealthy and educated classes allowed modern scholars to associate it with a wider and better described disorder of melancholy.[2]’

Hormone treatments and surgery seem to be seen in a similar way, the "alchemical" mechanisms for changing sex or forcing the body into alignment with "gender identity"

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Delphinium, so many people are using gender identity as a chance for radically rebranding themselves and women like this are rebranding themselves as uber kind and trendy and better than others. As you said, social media is like crack to these people - excellent description.

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Delphinium20 · 30/10/2024 14:32

Sorry for the weird italics. I only wants to emphasize "kind"

Delphinium20 · 30/10/2024 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:29

DameMaud · 30/10/2024 14:13

There was also the very recent tourettes/tic epidemic
https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2022.06.4.19

Absolutely, and happening concurrently with the gender identity epidemic but somehow society deemed one to be psychogenic illness spread by social media and one to be a genuine expression of identity 🤷‍♀️

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FarriersGirl · 30/10/2024 14:19

Thank you @UtopiaPlanitia for posting this. Well worth a listen [better through a smart speaker for sound]. I thought the presentation and questions at the end provided a comprehensive overview of the issues around the rise of trans genderism especially in relation to children and young people.

DameMaud · 30/10/2024 14:13

There was also the very recent tourettes/tic epidemic
https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.pn.2022.06.4.19

UtopiaPlanitia · 30/10/2024 14:02

WarriorN · 30/10/2024 08:52

He wrote the book about an obscure mental illness that affected males a couple of hundred years ago somewhere in Europe whereby they'd start walking in a daze and be found miles away from home.

Because he couldn't write about the social contagion of multiple personality issues that was going on at the time.

There was an even older mass psychogenic craze where people thought they were made out of glass. Even though we are a more recent society, with better science and understanding of the world and the human body, we are not immune to crazes and hysterias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_delusion

’In the 16th and 17th centuries of Europe, glass became a valuable commodity. It was regarded as a magical, alchemical object.[2] Associated with fragility and luxury, glass influenced the way noblemen of early Europe perceived their esteemed positions in society. This fixation on a novel material contributed to the manifestation of the delusion. Edward Shorter, a historian of psychiatry from the University of Toronto, attributes the rise of the delusion in 17th century Europe to the novelty of glass material, stating that "throughout history, the inventive unconscious mind has pegged its delusions on to new materials and the technological advances of the age."[3]

Concentration of the glass delusion among the wealthy and educated classes allowed modern scholars to associate it with a wider and better described disorder of melancholy.[2]’

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BadSkiingMum · 30/10/2024 13:34

Apologies, it wasn’t ‘Deenie’ - can’t remember the title now.

BadSkiingMum · 30/10/2024 13:30

Yes, I remember that late eighties teen phase as being a bit like ‘Pick your cause’ at my school. One girl brought a load of leaflets about animal testing into school, so we were all desperate to go to the Body Shop. One lucky girl had already been to a Body Shop (there wasn’t one in our nearest town) so brought some products into school to show the rest of us! 😂
Another brought in material about animal welfare and the meat industry, so several girls went vegetarian. Eating disorders and self harm were around but not hugely prevalent, although possibly influenced by Judy Blume’s ‘Deenie’.
The leaflet was the social media of choice (could be passed around at breaks and read in lessons) and, if it was on a printed leaflet, it surely was the truth? I think the TRAs might have actually missed a trick there tbh!
Anyway, just my own recollections!

Madlentileater · 30/10/2024 11:24

BadSkiingMum · 30/10/2024 08:15

Interesting - I will take a look.

I’m old enough to remember a dysphoria around multiple personalities being in the news and apparently being taken very seriously by the mainstream media at the time.

I also remember being very bored as an intelligent, probably under-stimulated, middle class teenager between the ages of about thirteen and sixteen - reading endless classic novels about life, love and death while waiting for something, anything, to happen in order to start the serious business of my own life! Of course I now know that is a hugely privileged position and no one actually wants big life events to happen to them as a teenager. I probably could have done with taking a GCSE early or something! But I remember that feeling and wonder what would have happened if a big social contagion had come along while I was in that mindset?

that's interesting I remember being the same, and it would account for the (seems to me) over representation of bright middle class teens
for me it resulted in me giving up on religion and becoming vegetarian which have both worked out well for me

Madlentileater · 30/10/2024 11:17

Gagagardener · 27/10/2024 23:13

I am interested in the subject. But is there an edited takeaway transcript/summary? I found this too irritating to persist with: vocal creaks; 'okay, errr...' rambling syntax... grrr!

Am I on my own in disliking listening to podcasts? I don't enjoy eavesdropping on chummy ramblings. Or, in this case, a recorded live unscripted seminar.

oh god, I thought I was the only one!

no- I want properly edited speech with well constructed arguments addressed to me as an intelligent listener, not someone chatting to their mate

WhatAMessWales · 30/10/2024 09:49

I found this really interesting - the sound quality isn't perfect (a few weird banging noises at times) but it's a recording of a live seminar/webinar. I'm just grateful that modern technology allows us to access such things from the other side of the world.

Mia is an absolutely amazing researcher and speaker - I highly recommend the webinars she did with Genspect on a range of other past medical scandals (lobotomy, ovariotomy, apotemnophilia, growth hormones) drawing parallels with our current situation. WPATH Files Webinar Series: Medical Scandals of the Past — Genspect

(I would also say that her delivery is quite 'soft' but what she has to say is extremely clear and doesn't pull punches. I really admire her.)

WPATH Files Webinar Series: Medical Scandals of the Past — Genspect

Throughout April and May

https://genspect.org/wpath-files-webinar-series-medical-scandals-of-the-past/

WarriorN · 30/10/2024 08:52

He wrote the book about an obscure mental illness that affected males a couple of hundred years ago somewhere in Europe whereby they'd start walking in a daze and be found miles away from home.

Because he couldn't write about the social contagion of multiple personality issues that was going on at the time.

WarriorN · 30/10/2024 08:51

Someone called Hacking who wrote "Mad travellers," which this is taken from.

Analysing Historical Mass Psychogenic Epidemics & Gender Dysphoria
WarriorN · 30/10/2024 08:49

She mentions that happening in the 1980s/ 90s and a book about it