Feminised words

😀

You've just reminded me, when I first moved to France, a friend told me that if somebody says 'Madame..ou Mademoiselle?' to reply 'Madame' in a very firm no-nonsense voice, although I wasn't married, because 'it establishes the right power dynamics'

It ultimately comes from Latin. About 90% of English words of 2 syllables or more derive from Latin or Greek. With the Normans a lot of Latin came into English via Norman French.
Latin has 3 genders: Masculine, Feminine, Neuter.
The -or ending used for a lot of profession words , has the feminine ending -trix
actor is (m) used for men. actrix (f) used for women....actress
doctor (m), ...doctrix (f) ....doctor, dottoressa etc
nutrix (f) nurse
auctor (m) author, auctrix (f)
It has nothing to do with belittling women. Amelia Earheart was called an aviatrix as the Latin was aviator. A female US senator should be a Senatrix. Interestingly the Latin word for citizen , civis can be (m) or (f), even better sacerdos priestess/priest can also be (f) or (m).
I like having words for women! The idea that we need to use the male form to be 'normal' is depressing
PS: seamstress isn't Latin, it's supposedly Old English and the male version is seamster. I do know brewer is (m) and brewster, spinster, baxter (baker) are all (f). Great profession names!

More terms have become neutral, which is good.

Vicars still get a fair amount of ‘lady vicar’, though only from people who don’t generally go to church.

I like the specifically female terms myself- we are moving into an era where an actress of the calibre of Helena Bonham Carter can embrace it. We can be proud of our identity, just like anyone else.

Definitely about status and respectability. Like French women addressed as madame after they reach a certain age, older German women would also be addressed as Frau. Think it's the same in Spanish and Italian as well.
German women are generally nowadays referred to as Frauen, however old they are and whether married or not. I don't think people use Fraulein (can't do the umlaut on my keyboard) for a grown woman anymore.

Now that we're chasing words back through history.. one of my fave hobbies too

I noticed that in early 19th century documents the Reverend Mother [i.e. Boss Nun] of a convent was addressed as Mrs Smith, Mrs being a term of respect, not of marital status.

But then again, was Mrs Bridges in Upstairs Downtstairs married? I think not.
Similar use of Mrs as a title of respect for her job?

Same here, I find it fascinating. Also my dad was a linguistics professor, so I grew up with conversations about such things.

Interesting. In the manner of the quip “as the actress said to the bishop”…

My midwife was a man and was just called a midwife.

I have noticed older men using the terms ‘male nurse’ and ‘female doctor’, which I hate.

That's so true! They copied for hours so must have got bored! Some of the illuminated manuscripts have somewhat racy pictures, too! 😉

Such a fascinating subject - also the points on this thread about the feminisation of words, and how that diminishes status.

Holly Walsh, the comedian, did a dissertation or thesis or something on medieval marginalia - apparently monks would get so bored copying out manuscripts all day they would draw/write silly or rude stuff in the margins! Presumably they were confident that whichever rich lord was going to own the book wouldn't actually read it...

No, I am not a languages graduate - and I am horribly envious of you now! I'm just generally interested, purely as a lay person, in how languages develop and are related to each other.

Yes, I did! I love those languages and suspect you do too - are you a similar graduate?

On another note, I saw an old document recently with details of women in WW1 carrying coal, counter parts to coalmen, and they were called "coal lasses", but I suspect that was regional.
I'm glad "doctoress" didn't continue as a term!

It is!
Medieval languages must have been a fascinating area. Did you specialise in Germanic languages?

Yes, that's true. Although my knowledge comes from my studies of Medieval languages and really was intended just to make the point about the word midwife.
I think it's a nice term with a good meaning !

Weib was slightly derogatory in the same way that "woman" used to be slightly derogatory. (Kids taught to say a lady and a man, the nice lady etc...)
And your example of women of substance being described as Damen somewhat proves my point.

Although there's no evidence that this is derogatory, as wife meant every woman. Dame was used if a woman had an extra responsibility. Some medieval women farmers were "Dame". Or if they ran a school.

Yes. Wife just means woman, so in this case, the woman in labour. "Mid" being "with".
That use of "wife" also remains in the original wedding ceremony - "I now pronounce you man and wife" meaning they are a man and woman together. All women were "wife".

In German Weib = old-fashioned, slightly derogatory word for woman.
As opposed to Dame which means lady.

Thank you, very helpful. So wife refers refers to the mother, not the helper.

Midwife is an old English term meaning "with woman". Your job is to be with the woman and help her. So a man could be called a midwife as it's not the job title that's gendered.

The suffragists and suffragettes were different branches of women's rights campaigners. Suffragists, who believed in non-violent protest, were the first group to be formed. Suffragettes were an offshoot of the suffragists who grew frustrated by the slow progress of non-violent protest and wanted more direct action. But "suffragette" was indeed coined to belittle the suffragettes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-42879161

There are lots of instances where roles are played by the opposite sex. A woman playing Prince Charming in a pantomime could still correctly be called an actress, just as a man playing an ugly sister would be an actor.