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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Teacher struck for posting online 'Where I teach the trans kids are untouchable'

164 replies

IwantToRetire · 23/10/2024 18:50

A teacher has been struck off after ridiculing her school's gender identity policy and posting transphobic comments online.

Camilla Hannan, 54, posted offensive remarks including 'where I teach the trans kids are untouchable' while working at the school in Manchester.

The teacher, who had been employed at the school since 2001, also wrote of trans students: 'They get everything they ask for and everyone, staff and other students alike, is petrified of upsetting them. They don't seem oppressed to me more like oppressors tbh.'

Hannan admitted all the allegations against her and accepted they amounted to unacceptable professional conduct.

A Teaching Regulation Agency misconduct hearing said the behaviour demonstrated a lack of tolerance and respect for the rights and beliefs of others.

More at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13988139/Teacher-struck-school-gender-identity-trans.html

Teacher struck off after ridiculing school's gender identity policy

Camilla Hannan, 54, posted offensive comments including 'where I teach the trans kids are untouchable' while working at the school in Manchester.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13988139/Teacher-struck-school-gender-identity-trans.html

OP posts:
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ScholesPanda · 24/10/2024 03:01

No teacher should be naming pupils on social media.

Apparently if your GC it's a free for all. Why should any rules apply to you?

Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 02:26

Schools should foster a culture of respect and inclusivity, protecting the rights of both teachers and pupils to ensure a harmonious working environment.

The teacher's tweets are indefensible and disrespectful, and in my view she wouldn't stand a chance if this goes to court

IwantToRetire · 24/10/2024 02:06

That is your opinion

Oh dear - more fairy tales.

A court case has decided that employers, ie the school, have to give EQUAL value to both beliefs.

ie in trying to enforce self identity beliefs but not sex based rights the school is at fault.

The school has failed to protect the teacher's beliefs which as court has ruled " are worthy of respect".

There should have been provision in the school for those who are none believers in trans ideology.

Not say that they are the problem for not adhering to a set of beliefs that aren't held universally at the expense of her own.

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Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 01:40

Not forgetting that those who believe sex is a biological fact have the right to have their views respected, and so the school should have respected the right of the teacher to hold those views.

That is your opinion. I happen to agree with A Teaching Regulation Agency.

A Teaching Regulation Agency misconduct hearing said the behaviour demonstrated a lack of tolerance and respect for the rights and beliefs of others.

Screamingabdabz · 24/10/2024 01:28

Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 01:05

Sure, the reality of chromosomes is important, but so are a host of other biological factors. It’s like looking at a cake and insisting it’s just flour—things are more complex than that.

But some people like it nice and simple

Edited

🙄

IwantToRetire · 24/10/2024 01:17

Sure, the reality of chromosomes is important, but so are a host of other biological factors. It’s like looking at a cake and insisting it’s just flour—things are more complex than that.

I didn't realise this thread was now about fairy tales.

Interestingly the Charity Commission has just made public its findings about Mermaid, amongst which is says Mermaid should stick to the Cass report etc..

They clearly dont think fairy storied should be the basis of decisions by grown ups.

Not forgetting that those who believe sex is a biological fact have the right to have their views respected, and so the school should have respected the right of the teacher to hold those views.

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IwantToRetire · 24/10/2024 01:12

For some reason even though in the post 2 others quoted that i wasn't trying to excuse the teacher, then presumed to lecture me on the basis that i was excusing her.

To put it simply, I am saying that she may just have decided she didn't care.

That finding that somebody had reported her for a few tweets based against the years of teaching she had presumably been sucessful at, wasn't worth complying with a doctrine she doesn't subscribe to.

I dont have the information about where and how the comments on social media were made, whether they were under a psuedoname etc.. Was it a personal account. Was it on some shared school platform?

If as another post suggests there was only the mention of one pupil, presumably she could have tried to explain it away as a momentary lapse or something.

But clearly she couldn't be bothered, or couldn't bring herself to play the game she was meant to.

Nobody has said anything about pupils bullying her, but if you are working in a climate where only one side of the story is seen as being the one to side with, you might just shrug your shoulders and move on.

None of us know. She might be really unwell.

I do realise a pupil could have been really upset.

But equally, safeguarding isn't always about saying the pupils perspective if right. Individual pupils, let alone gangs of pupils, can be bullies, especially if someone is vulnerable.

Is there anything about what the school did to begin with when this first happened.

To have got to the stage of being struck off implies what? That the school tried to resovle it and she wouldn't co-operate with what they thought was the needed outcome of complaints.

Or the school having become aware of the tweets just went straight to the process of getting her struck off.

Was there anything in the media prior to this decision.

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Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 01:05

Myalternate · 24/10/2024 00:39

Reality is a state of things as they actually exist as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. Not imagined, invented or theoretical.
Fact, truth, certainty.

Sure, the reality of chromosomes is important, but so are a host of other biological factors. It’s like looking at a cake and insisting it’s just flour—things are more complex than that.

But some people like it nice and simple

Myalternate · 24/10/2024 00:39

Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 00:32

Ah, if only biology and identity were as simple as that. Unfortunately, reality disagrees

Reality is a state of things as they actually exist as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. Not imagined, invented or theoretical.
Fact, truth, certainty.

Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 00:32

Myalternate · 24/10/2024 00:20

Humans are unable to change sex. End of discussion.

Ah, if only biology and identity were as simple as that. Unfortunately, reality disagrees

Myalternate · 24/10/2024 00:20

Humans are unable to change sex. End of discussion.

Inauthentic · 24/10/2024 00:09

ILikeDungs · 24/10/2024 00:06

But if a student transitioned or identified as a gender different from the one assigned at birth, she should respect their identity and the pronouns they prefer, even if it's an all-girls school and the teacher finds it difficult to accept/understand it.

Neither gender or sex is assigned at birth.

Gender questioning children must not be affirmed. See Cass Report.

This thread is full of the same nonsense this teacher faced, before she imploded.

The Cass Review advocates for careful, evidence-based approaches tailored to each child's needs, rather than immediate affirmation or denial of their identity.

ILikeDungs · 24/10/2024 00:06

But if a student transitioned or identified as a gender different from the one assigned at birth, she should respect their identity and the pronouns they prefer, even if it's an all-girls school and the teacher finds it difficult to accept/understand it.

Neither gender or sex is assigned at birth.

Gender questioning children must not be affirmed. See Cass Report.

This thread is full of the same nonsense this teacher faced, before she imploded.

lifeinthelastlane · 23/10/2024 23:56

No, sex is observed at birth not assigned.

Inauthentic · 23/10/2024 23:52

Tallisker · 23/10/2024 23:40

Gender isn't assigned at birth.

You are right, sex is.

Gender is more complex and involves social, cultural, and personal factors, and schools are increasingly respecting that

Tallisker · 23/10/2024 23:40

Gender isn't assigned at birth.

Inauthentic · 23/10/2024 23:37

lifeinthelastlane · 23/10/2024 23:24

Can you explain? In a room full of girls you'd expect she and her to be the pronouns in use. They would have been the only ones she'd used for 20 years!
If one of the girls has identified as a boy, how does that fit with attending an all girls school? or vice versa?

The teacher might have been used to using "she" and "her" pronouns for years.
But if a student transitioned or identified as a gender different from the one assigned at birth, she should respect their identity and the pronouns they prefer, even if it's an all-girls school and the teacher finds it difficult to accept/understand it.

I imagine most institutions will allow students to continue attending based on their gender identity, recognising that gender is not strictly defined by the school’s admissions criteria (rather than excluding them). The school would be expected to support the student’s gender identity, including the use of appropriate pronouns, regardless of "what teachers used to do in the past"

lifeinthelastlane · 23/10/2024 23:24

Can you explain? In a room full of girls you'd expect she and her to be the pronouns in use. They would have been the only ones she'd used for 20 years!
If one of the girls has identified as a boy, how does that fit with attending an all girls school? or vice versa?

Inauthentic · 23/10/2024 23:19

I also think the pronouns issue must be hard when teaching in an all girls school, when you'd expect everyone to be a girl!

Well, yes—if you overlook some basic understanding of transgender issues.

lifeinthelastlane · 23/10/2024 23:18

I've read the report. There does only seem to be about 5 tweets. The name used by a student is given which is unacceptable. Though I suppose as the account was not in the teachers name she might not have expected it to be identifiable. I wonder who told the school it was her.

MrsSkylerWhite · 23/10/2024 23:16

No teacher should be posting about their pupils. Highly unprofessional.

Inauthentic · 23/10/2024 23:14

Her SM posts could have or did identify individual children is not the only or main issue.

A Teaching Regulation Agency misconduct hearing said the behaviour demonstrated a lack of tolerance and respect for the rights and beliefs of others.

While I understand that her age and rigid beliefs could be a factor, I don’t think that should serve as an excuse.

lifeinthelastlane · 23/10/2024 23:11

I also think the pronouns issue must be hard when teaching in an all girls school, when you'd expect everyone to be a girl!

lifeinthelastlane · 23/10/2024 22:54

Misgendering the child in person, or on social media? Obviously no pupil should be identified on SM, but I think it's interesting if people are forced to use preferred pronouns in situations where the person has no idea they are being used.
I'm not sure if her comment re Autism has been misunderstood (if it is what appeared in the article.) Was she saying children with autism can't understand gender identity, or drawing the link many on FWR have noted between autism and trans identity, which is more about protecting those young people than ridiculing them.
I'm aware things might have been said that I haven't seen which could change my mind. The worst thing she has done seems to be the identifying information that's totally wrong.

Inauthentic · 23/10/2024 22:52

This topic alone and its comments confirm the quite shocking (to me) transphobia among Mumsnetters.

Someone even suggested that the teacher was bullied by the pupil and the school, while it’s clear she was the bully herself.