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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Gisele Pelicot defendants described

233 replies

theDudesmummy · 23/10/2024 08:04

This is a depressing but instructive read. A common theme seems to be that the men claim they just didn't bother to think. And that they "didn't know" or didn't understand about the concept of consent. Is that just what they say, or a true reflection?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/23/a-soldier-a-nurse-a-lorry-driver-and-dozens-more-who-are-the-men-accused-over-and-assault-of-gisele-pelicot?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

A soldier, a nurse, a lorry driver and dozens more: who are the men accused over rape and assault of Gisèle Pelicot?

Dominique Pelicot has admitted drugging and raping his wife. Fifty other men may face up to 20 years in prison if found guilty in case that has shocked the world

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/23/a-soldier-a-nurse-a-lorry-driver-and-dozens-more-who-are-the-men-accused-over-and-assault-of-gisele-pelicot?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

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MarieDeGournay · 20/12/2024 10:32

Nadia El Bouroumi - who has a very interesting backstory of forced marriage, domestic abuse, and working her way through law studies by being a hairdresser - is a highly controversial character. She sees her social media 'diary' as separate from her courtroom activities.
She obviously likes to shock - she reminds me a little bit [in style not politics] of Donal Trump - you say the most outrageous things and then double down on them when challenged and try to make your critics look 'elitist' or 'woke' - I don't know if there is a French word for woke yet, but El Bouroumi used the idea of ordinary decent hardworking local provincial men who had been manipulated by the monster Dominque Pelicot and were now being persecuted by the woke Parisian elites..

Émile-Henri Biscarrat - he was the laywer I referred to 'in real time' on another thread when he spoke immediately after the sentencing and appeared to defend the absence of intent as a defence to rape in French law. At the time I thought that was surprising, as he was coming out of a courtroom where that defence hadn't worked for any of the defendants. It felt inappropriate in that moment, and still does.

Guillaume De Palma - he was the one who said 'Il y a viol et viol' - 'There's rape, and there's rape'.
He seems less combative than Biscarrat, and has stated that he was making that point not to the public, but to the judges, purely on the basis of current legal definitions, in defence of his clients - that there is what the public and the media consider rape, and there is what the law considers rape.

Who was the one who taunted GP's supporters outside the court, Lalgarh? I missed that.

All of the defence barristers had a job to do, and it wouldn't have been a fair trial if they hadn't done their absolute best to defend their clients.
Nadia El Bouroumi is now saying that she sympathised with Gisèle Pelicot and was just doing her job [she used the very 'street' slang word 'taff' for work - she would, wouldn't she🙄]

None of that would make any of them them 'the rapist's sweetheart', but I think their words and behaviour outside the courtroom are fair game for criticism.

edited for typos - the ones I spotted anyway!

BettyFilous · 20/12/2024 09:30

Tho more frightening prospect is that this trial might have inspired some bloke out there to try the same, or that this is already going on in the UK or elsewhere but there's no video evidence

The same occurred to me. 😕 (Edit: with the risk of some men misjudging the dose and killing their partners or victims. How closely are “accidental overdoses” scrutinised?)

Lalgarh · 20/12/2024 08:46

Hostage to screening scheduling, but why they commissioned Real Girlfriends in Paris about 6 American women in their 20s trying to find romance with french men without getting the ick. I guess it's inspired by Emily in Paris.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Girlfriends_in_Paris

Tho more frightening prospect is that this trial might have inspired some bloke out there to try the same, or that this is already going on in the UK or elsewhere but there's no video evidence

Real Girlfriends in Paris - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Girlfriends_in_Paris

ScrollingLeaves · 20/12/2024 08:37

Datun · 20/12/2024 05:28

They heard the defence ask Gisèle why she didn’t cry enough, was too friendly with her ex-husband (trying to prove their sexual complicity) and noted she swam naked in her swimming pool. One defence lawyer, Nadia El Bouroumi, who treated Gisèle brusquely in court, even made a TikTok of herself miming along to Wham!’s Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go, for which in Britain, I’m told, she’d probably be disbarred.

This is awful. I'm shocked. It's making me see the French entirely differently.

You are so right. Last night I saw a film with an assassination scene showing an important French military ceremony with dignitaries, politicians, French flags and all the pomp possible, and thought to myself, “And you, and you, and you…”

Lalgarh · 20/12/2024 08:29

Unfortunately isn't this half the shit a UK court would do, apart from rapist's sweetheart Nadia El Bouroumi

Datun · 20/12/2024 05:28

They heard the defence ask Gisèle why she didn’t cry enough, was too friendly with her ex-husband (trying to prove their sexual complicity) and noted she swam naked in her swimming pool. One defence lawyer, Nadia El Bouroumi, who treated Gisèle brusquely in court, even made a TikTok of herself miming along to Wham!’s Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go, for which in Britain, I’m told, she’d probably be disbarred.

This is awful. I'm shocked. It's making me see the French entirely differently.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 20/12/2024 01:41

Lalgarh · 20/12/2024 01:18

6 of the rapists have walked free already, having served time in what France 24 describes as (iirc) "preliminary detention" ( remand?).

One of their lawyers taunted the women protesting outside that his client was free

Another lawyer who should be disbarred.

Lalgarh · 20/12/2024 01:18

6 of the rapists have walked free already, having served time in what France 24 describes as (iirc) "preliminary detention" ( remand?).

One of their lawyers taunted the women protesting outside that his client was free

Lalgarh · 19/12/2024 23:58

lcakethereforeIam · 19/12/2024 22:12

Janice Turner has written a follow up article

https://archive.ph/Z1NQb

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/janice-turner-pelicot-trial-tm35z7x0v

Another Times article written from the male perspective

https://archive.ph/XvfcZ

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/pelicot-trial-mens-view-rmkl0r05j

I'm impressed he managed to type anything while clutching all those straws.

Edited

Top name checking of wah Valerie Solanas.

There it is, they did it because they could

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 19/12/2024 21:45

Lalgarh · 19/12/2024 17:18

5PM r4 news noting that French media aren't really dwelling on this story. They've moved onto other things, and is this just the media not considering this in the way the UK and US media have

The French media ignoring this is an example of powerful men protecting patriarchy.

Lalgarh · 19/12/2024 17:18

5PM r4 news noting that French media aren't really dwelling on this story. They've moved onto other things, and is this just the media not considering this in the way the UK and US media have

Greyskybluesky · 19/12/2024 16:49

How the hell can some of these men's partners stand by them??

lcakethereforeIam · 19/12/2024 16:44

This Telegraph article also has all the names and short bios, but it was published yesterday so it doesn't have the sentences

https://archive.ph/Nhzv9 this link will take you past the paywall

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/18/gisele-pelicot-trial-all-the-men-mazan-affair/

NoBinturongsHereMate · 19/12/2024 16:39

Yes. This thread has most of them: https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1869673907696877671?

It doesnt list sentences, which ranged from 3 to 15 years.

x.com

https://x.com/vicderbyshire/status/1869673907696877671

HumphreyCushionintheHouse · 19/12/2024 16:32

Now that the husband, and all the 50 defendants have been found guilty, will their names be published?

lcakethereforeIam · 19/12/2024 13:37

I'm relieved. As 'consent', we've been told, isn't featured in French law and the men claiming they truly believed they had consent (because of what her husband told them) I wouldn't have been surprised if some of them had been found not guilty.

I expect some will appeal.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 19/12/2024 13:31

BettyFilous · 19/12/2024 09:43

Excerpts from the Times’ live coverage and updates:

Dominique Pelicot has been found guilty of all charges — including aggravated rape, drugging his ex-wife and invasion of privacy.

He is also found guilty of the attempted aggravated rape of the wife of one of the co-accused and taking indecent images of his daughter, Caroline, and his daughters-in-law, Aurore and Celine.

All of the 50 other defendants on trial have been found guilty of either rape or sexual assault

Almost all of aggravated rape, and some of additional charges.

Hard from a UK persective to see how it could have been otherwise, but with French law I was worried.

lcakethereforeIam · 19/12/2024 12:32

I've just been reading the reporting on sentencing in the BBC. I'm was surprised to find myself becoming a bit tearful.

I hope Gisèle and her family have a happy and healing Christmas and New Year.

MarkWithaC · 19/12/2024 11:34

I only wish his term was longer, but I do realise this is the maximum available (the law is an ass).
Glad justice has prevailed for all of the others too.

BettyFilous · 19/12/2024 09:43

Excerpts from the Times’ live coverage and updates:

Dominique Pelicot has been found guilty of all charges — including aggravated rape, drugging his ex-wife and invasion of privacy.

He is also found guilty of the attempted aggravated rape of the wife of one of the co-accused and taking indecent images of his daughter, Caroline, and his daughters-in-law, Aurore and Celine.

All of the 50 other defendants on trial have been found guilty of either rape or sexual assault

Lalgarh · 19/12/2024 09:39

Dominic Pelicot guilty of rape, but also of filming the other men he invited to rape Giselle , as well as of filming his daughter

ChateauMargaux · 18/12/2024 22:12

Sentencing tomorrow... i wish there was a place to meet in solidarity.