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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sancta - Stuttgart

30 replies

WagnersFourthSymphony · 11/10/2024 09:10

Wise vipers of MN, please help me sort out my thinking on this.
Has anyone seen it?

I have a visceral reaction that is possibly just irrational old-fashioned prudery. On the other hand, that’s an argument often used to shut down discussion - by either side.

On the one hand,
I am old.
2. I haven’t seen this production. I’m relying on a newspaper report.
3. I’m generally not in favour of censorship. Let consenting adults do what they like among themselves so long as they are not really hurting anyone.
4. The audience is given ample notice of what the show is.
5. There’s no suggestion anyone was co-erced into appearing, let alone watching.
6. There’s no suggestion that children are exposed.
7. I am so squeamish I can’t bear to watch Marina Abramovic’s body art
8. People watch horror movies where worse things happen, and it doesn’t make them do bad things to other people.
9. The producers can argue there is a clear intellectual basis so it's not gratuitous offence.

On the other hand

  1. I’m revolted. I go all Mary Whitehouse pearl-clutching at the idea of this being a public performance rather than something in an obscure members’ club.
  2. I worry that this sort of thing (shades of Father Ted) normalises outrageous behaviour
  3. It is clear that many people want to watch this sort of thing, attracted by the publicity.
  4. It is clear that much of the attraction is the real life element.
  5. It is clear that much of the attraction is that the participants are all women and we have enough problems already with (not all) men’s attitude to women.
  6. It is so decadent it feels like the last days of Rome…

So, is this any of my business, beyond simply deciding not to see it myself? Should I mind if it moved to my local theatre?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/18-treated-for-severe-nausea-in-stuttgart-after-opera-of-live-sex-and-piercing

Eighteen treated for severe nausea in Stuttgart after opera of live sex and piercing

Florentina Holzinger’s bloody Sancta was criticised by Austrian bishops and is now a sellout in Germany

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/18-treated-for-severe-nausea-in-stuttgart-after-opera-of-live-sex-and-piercing

OP posts:
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 11/10/2024 09:48

I love Abramovic and enjoy a Serebrennikov opera, but this is different to me.
It seems like the sexual activity is performed by people who are involved in the sex industry so I'm not sure I agree about the consenting part. It is a coercive industry.
Performers with a union and intimacy coordinators is one thing and this is another.
The coverage has led to it selling out, as well - it seems incredibly clichéd and sensationalist but people are into it. Grim.

Imnobody4 · 11/10/2024 09:48

I'm starting to think of ancient Rome.
'Gladiators were usually enslaved people or prisoners who volunteered to fight for fame and riches. They were often between the ages of 20 and 35'

lcakethereforeIam · 11/10/2024 09:44

Tiresome shtick instead of genuine talent. Jackass with no boundaries and occasionally, I assume, bits of an opera breaks out. I suspect the woman's actual talent is as a self publicist and a saleswoman.

It is a shame dross like this gets commissioned, while people with worthwhile ideas starve in garrets.

But if all the participants (performers and audience) are genuinely consenting and adult it's difficult to articulate an objection that wouldn't be dismissed as pearl clutching.

Seriously though what is it with some Germans and faeces?

Gagagardener · 11/10/2024 09:43

Interesting. And I too am old. The main question I would ask is who benefits from seeing it? (What good does it do? Does it make the world a better place?) It does not sound uplifting.

Villagetoraiseachild · 11/10/2024 09:31

If it gives you the visceral ick, that is enough.
Why intellectualize yourself out of that?
I'm getting sensationalist/ titillation vibes, entertainment/ distraction for the bored bourgeoisie .

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