NPR claiming increase in suicides after laws passed

Justme56 · 08/10/2024 19:38

I just had a quick look at the site and the new CEO of the Trevor Project identifies as a black non binary lesbian (they, she, he pronouns).

So, quite likely to be a white man, then.

I can't believe the utter callousness of any adult pushing the suicide narrative
If a child is distressed, the right response is to reassure them and make sure they're supported, not tell them their distress is going to make them commit suicide.
And then they use the increased distress even further to point out that they were 'right'.
Absolutely despicable

I came across this article analysing a study published in Nature which claimed an uptick in suicide attempts when legislators in the USA began restricting treatments offered by gender clinics. I thought the article would be of interest to those following this thread:

https://genderstats.substack.com/p/activism-based-rather-than-evidence

"Activism-based rather than evidence-based: A recently published study in the prestigious journal "Nature - Human Behavior" claims that Republican 'anti-trans' legislation causes upticks in suicide attempts by 7-72 %. It bursts with flaws.

Influence of Study on Media and Activism: The study has garnered significant attention from left-leaning media and trans activists, who claim it provides causal evidence that anti-trans legislation leads to increased suicide rates (7-72 % increase) among trans youth, framing any opposition to gender-affirming care as promoting child suicide.

Questionable Data and Estimates: Despite the study's claims of precision due to its large sample size, it relies on flawed data and unreasonable estimates, yet it is being used by activists and media to push a narrative and emotionally pressure those questioning gender ideology's impact on children."

This. If I were a young person in the US finding it hard to fit in, maybe questioning my identity or sexuality I would be really upset because of this constant framing of laws being anti-trans. It's malicious.

I'm sure loads of Victorian era children were topping themselves because they couldn't get access to cross-sex hormones and body modification surgery.
I'm surprised supposed suicide rates have gone up like this...

It doesn’t matter how big the sample size is. It’s a self-selecting questionnaire study recruiting a particular type of person via social media avenues like Snapchat, and using that to draw causality. It’s not even representative of TGNB people as a whole.

Only a few of those states passed legislation to limit healthcare for children. Many of the “anti-transgender” laws were about sport.

They call them “anti-transgender” laws. They could easily say “suicidal thoughts increased after passing of child protection laws”.

They indicate causality on the laws being passed, not the reporting of such laws.

I can’t see a comparison to the rates of suicidal ideation in non-TGNB kids to compare.

In terms of conflict of interest, of course the Trevor Project has a huge one. If TGNB identifying adolescents aren’t as distressed as they claim, then their whole public face ceases to be true.

The one peer reviewer named, as opposed to being anonymous, has published her own articles about state legislation impacts on trans people:

https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=kBVCQjQAAAAJ&citation_for_view=kBVCQjQAAAAJ:IWHjjKOFINEC

All of these concerns exist before you even look at the data to see if it’s remotely reliable on its own.

you don't pay money to submit to Nature Human Behaviour. you do pay to publish when the article is accepted. But with an 80-90% rejection rate, it is not plausible or easy to buy a place in this journal.

This study had over 60,000 people responding to their survey over multiple time points. It is not just a case of asking 100 people on a random website for their opinion.

Nature, and its subsidiary journals are just as much susceptible to problems with the peer review process as any other journals. It also costs thousands of dollars to submit your article, particularly for open access, with concerns that people can essentially “buy” a place in the journal, with little incentive to reject it. I would instantly question why a questionnaire survey article has been deemed good enough to warrant publication, and that’s without even addressing the obvious flaws in the article itself.

Was there an epidemic in the centuries before trans activism, or is it a very recent phenomenon?

This is published in Nature Human Behaviour which is a rigorous scientific journal. They have pretty tough reviews so this can't be dismissed easily. However, the limitation of the self selected sample and self report data is still a big one. And they can't show if the problem is (a) the laws, most of which were about women's sport or (b) the fuss and publicity around the laws.

I could certainly believe that the publicity around these issues makes people who have a strong personal interest feel miserable. And things would be better if this issue was not so strongly political.

I'm sure they do mind, whilst simultaneously not being clear what their/her/his demands are

I just had a quick look at the site and the new CEO of the Trevor Project identifies as a black non binary lesbian (they, she, he pronouns). Does that mean they/she/he doesn’t mind or something else?

Daniel Radcliffe 🤣
Thanks for brightening up such a dark thread topic

Also obviously this is suicide ideation/attempts rather than completed suicides. In previous surveys the limitations of this data have been clearly acknowledged.

Were they incentivised like last survey? I would assume so.

Daniel Radcliffe is a big supporter of the Trevor Project.

If there has been an increase I'd blame the people and organisations telling mentally vulnerable children and young people

1. that they're trans
2. that trans people kill themselves
3. that everyone hates them

"Hey young impressionable teenager. Do you feel suicidal? Lots of people like you do feel suicidal, there's lots of reasons to feel suicidal. The government/authorities hate you and lots of people want you to suffer and hate you. I bet that makes you feel sad. Don't go outside it's not safe. Lots of people would be suicidal in your position. After all, if you don't get XY done you will be doomed forever and they don't want to let you do XY. Here are some stories of brave people who committed suicide. Do you feel suicidal? " etc etc

It really is a mystery.

NPR will spread misinformation for the purposes of causing harm to those they consider to be on the wrong side of the political divide:

https://thepostmillennial.com/npr-forced-to-apologize-after-boosting-media-matters-lie-that-national-review-editor-used-racial-slur

The data comes from self reporting of surveys, which is known to have major limitations. Participants were recruited online.

The Trevor Project is an organisation that seems to ignore the guidelines in reporting about suicide and suicide attempts. I would also not trust their analysis of any research the Trevor Project does because I have found them to be rather free from accuracy in the analysis of their own studies.

The study in Nature. Haven't had a chance to look yet.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01979-5.epdf?sharingtoken=EbX7LsH7-AF5n99850vpnNRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PNveFlXHsicuqelg3jvg1Wcsju1CXHxspC9onbX6frEcU1-J5M25Ml5piLTNjBr959LGK7ejPr20VtTVSb18ArMlJnGNGgZYyU9CJQoJuUjN01H4VVGluDqOOepnWIgA%3D

Remember in reality what the phrase "passing anti-trans laws" actually means is "keeping in place the already existing right to single sex spaces".

Yes, or "not allowing child transitioning"

There is an awful lot of catastrophising going on in the trans movement, making already mentally and emotionally unstable or vulnerable people even more so. Everything is perceived as all or nothing.