Hilary Cass on Woman's Hour 9.10.24

I remember one poster dismiss sexual futures for these young people by stating that being ‘asexual’ was acceptable now. I believe it was DadJoke who said this. Am I misremembering?

Why would anyone hope for or want for any of this for a young, impressionable developing person. -who in most instances haven't even reached sexual maturity, nor a settled sense of their own sexual orientation?

I think many genderists don’t personally understand sexuality or sexual orientation at all. That’s one reason why they confuse sex and gender and often embrace kink in a multitude of forms - because ordinary, straightforward sexual gratification is beyond them, especially in its mundane reproductive role.

I've personally heard the testimony of numerous detransitioners...young women who have had not only their breasts removed but also their womb and ovaries - all before the age they reach adult maturity and being fully settled in their sexuality. What's more they have deepened voices and often facial hair they cannot get rid of without great cost.

Because the children who they are given to are not even suffering from any physical ill health. Theirs is an emotional/mental condition - for which emotional counselling and therapy is the right solution.

Short term euphoria soon passes, and the subject is still left with the fact that they cannot really change sex; plus now there are likely to be a range of physical issues related to medications and/or surgery

Romantic. and sexual relationships become more complicated too - post transition.

Why would anyone hope for or want for any of this for a young, impressionable developing person. -who in most instances haven't even reached sexual maturity, nor a settled sense of their own sexual orientation?

Dsis used Lupron for only one IVF with her own eggs. She got one egg from it for her troubles and luckily it turned into my DN, but before she even knew if it implanted, Dsis told her DH, "never again, that was hell."

I wouldn't expect a paediatrician to lead a review into the management of adults. Dr Cass is sticking to her specialty.
This is why I think this doctor in Wales, (the BMA chap, sorry his name escapes me) is not a suitable person to review the Cass report. I believe he is a geriatrician.

There are plenty of gender non-conforming people - far more than there are transgender people

Please define clearly what you mean by 'transgender people'.

I was wondering when they'd arrive here to start spreading disinformation. Every single thread on Cass, posting the same rubbish that's been debunked in every previous thread.

Yes. I have been told this. And so many people have reported doctors telling women this.

And for precocious puberty it is a lower dose and also very limited time.

For 'gender affirming' treatment, these children are on these drugs generally until they are old enough to use cross sex hormones. Some of them for YEARS.

But apparently, we know nothing. And the side effects are not known or proven.

The instructions for use for endometriosis:

”In endometriosis do not use for longer than 6 months (do not repeat)”

That ‘do not repeat’ means you must not use it for more than 6 months in a lifetime

My personal experience is of a friend with terminal prostate cancer who took Gnrh drugs for a short time, and then refused to any longer despite knowing this would shorten his life, because he couldn't handle the side effects.

I have a friend who used the drug for other purposes 20 years ago.

She expects to not be alive in 5 years due to the complications.

But yes…. A male person is telling women that they don’t know anything about the drugs prescribed….

Tell us you don’t know the uses of Lupron for precocious puberty and the reported debilitating effects on the young girls who took it (and dismiss so casually) without telling us you don’t know the impacts of Lupron.

There is a reason that it is used very carefully now for precocious puberty and the doses are very carefully handled. For precocious puberty and endometriosis.

Unlike blocking puberty. Where the drugs are used for much longer and the dosage is to fully block not to slow down.

But yay!!!! A male person telling women all about the drugs many women on this board have experience with.

I prefer to see the research rather than anecdotal evidence. It is however admirable that you have taken interest in the side effects of a drug which up to it being presscribed to trans kids, you had no interest in at all.

You know what they say about making assumptions?

No. I was concerned years and years ago when DD's best friend was going through a precocious puberty and I read up on puberty blockers.

I was wondering about her comment 'Look, if you have an enduring, long-standing trans identity…' as I also thought (actually, assumed, I admit) that she didn't subscribe at all to the idea of there being people who should have been the other sex.
But maybe your suggestion explains it: she's good at realpolitik.

With drugs, you need to compare outcomes with the risks of side effects. That's what drug trials are for. So far, use with CPP and for trans children doesn't suggest that there are high levels of side effects

Perhaps some posters aren't aware that many women on Mumsnet have their own personal experiences of the side effects of these drugs prescribed for endometriosis, IVF, fibroids.

What number of children need to be harmed before we are allowed to be concerned if 100 is not enough? 200? 500? 1000? Are we only allowed to be concerned with those in England? What about Scotland? The rest of the world?

No, that's not what being transgender is at all. There are plenty of gender non-conforming people - far more than there are transgender people.

You'd think that drug scandals affecting large numbers of children would be the more important, and yet, it's puberty blockers, which before the ban were prescribed to fewer than 100 children on the NHS, which seems to be the primary concern of this particular forum.

Sadly, these children in these trials will likely show us, with clear data and outcomes, how very bad the idea of "changing sex" can go.

I also suppose many of these children in trials would be at risk regardless of bans as many will have transhausen parents who would order blockers from the Internet or fly to dubious medical practitioners overseas. Maybe Cass suspects they are safer in trials.

'Trans' is just a definition/ a framing device placed on people, and children, who can't or won't conform to gendered expectations. It doesn't mean someone is the opposite sex to that which they are.

Given this is a parenting forum that is accessed by many thousands of women, I think you'll find that drug trials and medical malpractice very much have been the concern of people who post here - especially when it concerns children. The Lupron scandal has long been discussed,

It must be difficult to be the parent of a child who has gone along with such life altering medical practices - especially when the negative consequences have been shown to be true.

I'm amazed that there are people who think you can have a drug that stops something as fundamental and complex as puberty and think this drug would have no side effects. I find that completely mad.

WPATH commissioned John Hopkins University to do some research, but didn't approve of its findings ( See attachment above)