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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

663 replies

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 09:13

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

OP posts:
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9
Myalternate · 07/10/2024 16:13

Men that think they’re women are rejecting their authentic sex. Why?

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 07/10/2024 16:05

Some transwomen dress exactly as you describe, jeans and a hoody, no make-up etc. Maybe you just don’t notice them?

You're right, I wouldn't really notice men dressed as men, it wouldn't stand out.

ThisIsAlmostHalloween · 07/10/2024 16:04

mixedpeel · 07/10/2024 15:37

@OrlandointheWilderness : Why is it transwomen never dress like me!?! Jeans and a hoody, no make up and nails. No fancy hair etc. I would have far, far less of a hard time getting my head around it if a true reflection of womanhood was represented, but no. It's always a stereotype. A bit of a strange one in this case too I'm afraid.

Some transwomen dress exactly as you describe, jeans and a hoody, no make-up etc. Maybe you just don’t notice them?

Because they just look like men with ponytails?

Molly546 · 07/10/2024 16:00

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 14:30

Sorry, no it’s not ‘an intrinsic part of being a feminist’. There are a heck of a lot more feminists out there who are not trans exclusionary.

I do know how I define a woman, and it includes trans women. That’s a different view point to you- and as I’ve said many times before, I’m perfectly comfortable with a world in which we have different views.

But I am a feminist because I believe in, and fight for, the rights of women.

Sorry, those who are gender critical don’t get to claim feminism as their own and exclude everyone else!

I'm very confused by this. So you think biological men/transwomen are women so they are entitled to be in all women's spaces? Biological men/transwomen like Isla Bryson should be in women's prisons? Biological men/transwomen like Laurel Hubbard should be allowed to compete as women in the Olympics? How can you say you fight for the rights of women while also saying the likes of rapist Lexi Secker is a woman and so should be in prison with women? Or that women should lose out on medals to the likes of Lia Thomas? I don't understand how you could consider yourself feminist at all.

OP I disagree with those saying that your son is an attention seeker, I don't think it's something they would say if they lived with an autistic teen. Desperate to find somewhere they feel they are accepted yes, attention seeking no IMO. I also think that your kids ripping the piss or you telling him it's not a good look may not change his views on how he dresses if it is something he feels strongly that he likes. I know my 19 year old with ASD couldn't care less about what others think of the way he looks, he would happily go to work stinking of BO and having not washed his hair for 2 weeks, he literally couldn't care less because he thinks it's fine.

It's quite possible that your DS doesn't think this is a big deal at all, he can't put himself in you or your others kids shoes to understand the impact it might have on them. He really likes the material of the dress so why wouldn't everyone else? He thinks he looks great so why wouldn't everyone else? He thinks the name sounds nice so why wouldn't everyone else? He's not keyed in to social norms the way NT people are, he doesn't get social expectations.

He might be coming at this from a very different understanding to what you are. Of course he can't put himself in the shoes of a woman, he probably has no idea that he is being a strange caricature of a woman. He probably knows though that he doesn't like himself much, and people didn't seem to like him much when he was male.

I think your best bet is a gentle conversation, you could ask him what was wrong with being male. I think the answer to that could tell you a lot. You could ask him why he thinks being a woman would be better, what does he think a woman is. When did he first think he might be trans and why, and where has he got his information about it from. That is probably way too many questions for an autistic teen in one go but over a few weeks or whatever.

I think it's might be really useful to help him work it out for himself that this is not about him being a woman - because he can never be a woman - and help him try to work out what his issues actually are and why pretending to be a woman seems so appealing. It might just be that he thinks if he likes the material of dresses/wearing dresses then he must be a woman, I think that is probably the thinking around now anyway.

I would let the siblings be quite honest with him though, he's autistic so straight talking is better then subtlety that he won't get. Having more than one approach means you can see which is working better with him. His logic might be quite far off, I find that with DS sometimes and he needs things explaining that are obvious to the rest of the world but he is completely oblivious too. Good luck OP!

FragileIsAsFragileDoes · 07/10/2024 15:54

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 15:43

This is one of the things I’ve been chatting to DH about - we just don’t understand why. What’s he gaining? You can’t actually change sex. Any (legal and reasonable) behaviours, preferences or clothes (even Edwardian ones) are open to all … so why?

To fit in with a crowd?
To make himself interesting to some specific people?
Because he is gay but would prefer not to be?
Because he enjoys cross-dressing and transvestism=transgender in today's brave new world?
Because he is distressed or lonely or lost and this is a socially acceptable way to reinvent himself into someone who is none of these things?
Because he has fallen down a Reddit rabbit-hole?
Because he is experimenting with identity and who he is and is trying things on for size?
Because he wants to shock?
Because he is AGP?

I don't know your DS, OP, and some of these may not fit at all. So many possible reasons. I do know my DD (at uni doing computing) seems to have quite a high proportion of transwomen on her course.

Thegreenhandbag · 07/10/2024 15:49

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 11:00

I hope this so much. I'm really confused as he's got lots of men around him who are certainly not your 'stereotypical man'. Men in all sorts of styles, hair, make up and who ignore gender stereotypes. We're all really accepting of individuals. Does make me wonder if this is the only way to shock us.

It’s more likely he’s got involved in some online group or forum where this is their fetish.

If he’s 6f ft 2 and broad he’s probably used to being able to do and be as he likes without suffering shit for it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 15:46

I think there are a range of reasons men do it, OP. He's young, so there's likely to be peer group influence.

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 15:43

LittleMissViper · 07/10/2024 14:22

If you can open a dialogue with him, first thing I'd do is be asking what his aim is with all this. What is he hoping to achieve? And, more importantly, when will he consider his transition is complete? Hopefully his answers will give you some insight about why he's going down this path, and what his actual understanding about the process is.

It might be that you need to spell it out that there is no way to control the thoughts, beliefs and actions of other people. So if his ultimate plan and ongoing happiness involves everyone else accepting that he's a woman, then he's dooming himself to failure from the start, and setting himself up for a lifetime of misery.

Should it become apparent that part of it is that he likes dressing in and/or has a fascination with historical women's fashion, then there are many alternative ways he can explore and embrace that without transgenderism. He could get involved with theatre, or steampunk groups, or re-enactment, or live action roleplaying.

This is one of the things I’ve been chatting to DH about - we just don’t understand why. What’s he gaining? You can’t actually change sex. Any (legal and reasonable) behaviours, preferences or clothes (even Edwardian ones) are open to all … so why?

OP posts:
mixedpeel · 07/10/2024 15:39

Cross-posted with @WiddlinDiddlin making the same point.

mixedpeel · 07/10/2024 15:37

@OrlandointheWilderness : Why is it transwomen never dress like me!?! Jeans and a hoody, no make up and nails. No fancy hair etc. I would have far, far less of a hard time getting my head around it if a true reflection of womanhood was represented, but no. It's always a stereotype. A bit of a strange one in this case too I'm afraid.

Some transwomen dress exactly as you describe, jeans and a hoody, no make-up etc. Maybe you just don’t notice them?

WiddlinDiddlin · 07/10/2024 15:36

Totally unsurprising that this sudden realisation about himself occurs at University where within the first 18 months, many teenagers will suddenly realise, reinvent or discover their 'true' selves.

Whether its being vegan and joining Greenpeace, deciding they're gay or bisexual, spaffing their grant on a tail and joining the Furries or Therians... for some, 'trans' is the new... whatever that was, a normal part of going out into the world and working out who the fuck you are.

You can't exactly ignore it... if you object then you give him the 'my family hate me/won't support me' narrative that many young people glom onto as a device to lean on, get attention and so on...

I'd be leaning towards a 'Ok then, but you are aware women don't dress like that, and you look faintly ridiculous... if you'd ACTUALLY like to dress in a more feminine way... I can advise...' (Which is highly unlikely to result in him actually asking for advice because no teenager wants advice on how to dress from their parent ever, but also doesn't give him the 'everyone hates me' narrative!).

Btw, I do have trans friends and yes, lots of transwomen do indeed dress in jeans and hoodies and scruffs and comfy clothing. You won't notice them 99% of the time as they're trundling along doing their own thing and have been for decades. They're trying pretty hard NOT to draw attention to themselves and have chosen names that are bog standard, close to their deadname sometimes or at least, a common name of the era they were born in.

The 'quietly getting on with it' sector of the trans community is pretty much as horrified by the more recent 'lets make a huge fuss and seek all the attention' crowd as anyone else really!

PennyApril54 · 07/10/2024 15:30

I'd maybe just say to everyone including him that in this family we accept and care about each other as we are growing up and navigating the world and it's important everyone is shown respect so you ask all the siblings to try to do this. I'd suggest not giving him/ this situation any more attention as if it is a 'phase' of some sort fighting his corner will only feed it, cause him to source support elsewhere and this could make it more appealing for longer/ alienate him from the family. Just treat him normally and re tye make up / clothes you could say that that isn't how women actually dress/ style themselves and encourage him to rethink his look. All this will make it easier for him to return to being male if he decides that's what he wants to do and also help the transition if this is going to be long term
*I'm aware of the pronouns I have used in this post. I have done this to be clear for communication purposes and in line with the OP.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 07/10/2024 15:30

Sorry, no it’s not ‘an intrinsic part of being a feminist’. There are a heck of a lot more feminists out there who are not trans exclusionary.

We are not trans exclusionary in our feminism @ElleWoods15

Include transmen because they are female and feminism is for females.

Transwomen are male, they are part of the patriarchy, part of the oppressor class of females and a part of what feminism is trying to liberate females from. So feminism most certainly is not for transwomen. HTH

Tangerinenets · 07/10/2024 15:21

is he a joker? Could he be winding you up?

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 07/10/2024 15:17

,It’s interesting how virtually all the ‘replies’ are ignoring the OP’s original request about how to support her other children : ‘Edna’s’ siblings. Instead we have the customary urging to support Edna in various ways ( including getting Edna’s sister to help Edna with make up etc, wow, that is probably the most insensitive suggestion I have heard this year). It’s all about centring the most marginalised, bit of an oxymoron there.

So I will attempt to answer your question, OP, although I am too old to have experienced this particular form of behaviour within my peers and their families; but we had other not dissimilar disruptions. A priest I knew once said to me about a family who were coping with a very troubled child that the child had a right to understanding and support, but he did not have more right than the other siblings. Their need for support and understanding was just as great, and just as valid. So I would not try to stop your other children voicing their disquiet and even disconnection with their sibling's current presentation, they need to be able to express their feelings within the family. Their view of reality is just as valid as Edna’s , to say the least.

Ohfuckrucksack · 07/10/2024 15:17

I've pre-empted this with mine by being very openly and vocally gender critical and clear that they can wear what they want including makeup, but that when they start telling me what I can and cannot say I will be refusing.

This is not just around this issue, but other religions/beliefs too - including political - if they start telling me stuff that I do not personally believe I push back.

They can have their own belief systems - I make it clear that they are not mine and I will not be going along with this - same as if they were vegan and expected me to not have animal products in the house.

I would also be guarding their siblings against them being told they must agree with the oldest sibling.

if this was my son I would be quite worried about his safety (although the height helps) and would be making sure they knew whilst I don't agree with some of their decisions I will always be there like a shot if they need a lift/help.

usernamealreadytaken · 07/10/2024 15:11

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lyingonthebeach · 07/10/2024 15:05

BettyBooper · 07/10/2024 10:12

If he had messaged you saying his new name is Sherlock and come downstairs badly dressed as Sherlock Holmes doing a weird parody of the detective, you'd be 🤨.

But because the caricature he's gone with is female you're supposed to accept his 'authentic self'??!

I love Sherlock Holmes and dressing like him sounds great but if someone demanded that I accepted that they were actually Sherlock I'd be thinking they needed a mental health assessment.

This

thesunisastar · 07/10/2024 15:04

It is not easy, at 6ft 2, 'dressing up' as a woman. He will be ridiculed. He will be subjected to abuse. So no one decides to do this on a whim.

A young person who has spent a long time not fitting in (because they are ND, or for other reasons) is sadly already used to being ostracised and ridiculed just for being who they are. Which must be absolutely fucking horrendous.

By adopting a trans identity, suddenly all of that self-loathing can be channelled outwards instead. It's no longer your fault for not fitting in, its society's fault for being narrowminded and bigoted. Coupled with the attraction of having a ready made community that welcomes you and affirms you.

So no, I think that this is absolutely something that can be "done on a whim", because the abuse someone gets for cross dressing, although perhaps more open and prolific, will be much less personally painful that the old feelings of being an isolated misfit.

since1986 · 07/10/2024 15:02

ElleWoods15 · 07/10/2024 14:30

Sorry, no it’s not ‘an intrinsic part of being a feminist’. There are a heck of a lot more feminists out there who are not trans exclusionary.

I do know how I define a woman, and it includes trans women. That’s a different view point to you- and as I’ve said many times before, I’m perfectly comfortable with a world in which we have different views.

But I am a feminist because I believe in, and fight for, the rights of women.

Sorry, those who are gender critical don’t get to claim feminism as their own and exclude everyone else!

By definition, you are not a feminist and are not 'for' women's rights, if not only because your own internal misogyny is flashing bigger than the Eiffel tower after dark.

For fucks sake, honestly. You can't say you're a feminist but then say it's acceptable for a biological male to 'feel' his way in to a clearly defined biological and legal category which is there to protect those rights of women - biological women. Not pretend 'women'.

Your 'feminism' is just as pretend.

Consistentlytired · 07/10/2024 14:51

Hi @Autumnleavesareslippery firstly all the emotions you are feeling are valid and normal.
My son (daughter?) is also transgender, however they dress in gender neutral clothes and still very much look male although have very kovelt long brown hair. We found out this year in approximately June time after he attended a drs appointment with hi nana and because he couldn't speak the got the cyps crisis team to call. It was this event that led to him telling me what was going on for him and like your son he had known for years.
I might add that my son is also suspected ASD (definitely is) and awaiting assessment.

I felt relief that I finally understood what was going on for him, as I had worried for years about his mental health. He has no friends and only leaves the house for college or one of his walks to clear his head. He still Struggles with his mental health but it is like a weight has been lifted since he has came out.

I would in your shoes look into gender dysphoria and maybe look at joining some support groups for parents. I'm lucky in that my DD18 is fully supportive or her sibling and has helped with experimenting with make up recently to see what suits best.
I do think that the transgender community is more common in the asd community due to trouble with identity etc.
My DS 6 who is also ASD has no clue and we as a family are yet to navigate this change as he will be less forgiving either his black and white thinking, I believe he will say that his older brother cannot be a girl.

I also am terrified for his future, the stigma, discrimination and hate crime that he may have to face leaved me very scared. And like yourself I wonder how he will look if he does start to dress as a female, he is tall and very slim with a prominent Adams apple. We are going to the hairdressers on Saturday to get his hair styled so that is a start.

Just be there for your son and be kind to yourself, you will mourn the son you lost.

BiggerBoat1 · 07/10/2024 14:47

DadJoke · 07/10/2024 09:44

It sounds like you reacted pretty well, all things considered. One thing to realise is that the choice isn't whether your DC is transgender - that's a given - but whether they are out or not. Being out is hard, but the pressure to be who you are is usually stronger.

It is incredibly tough for parents, who have always know their child as a son to find out that they have a daughter - and one who is in one of the most mocked and villified segments of society.

It's incredibly tough being transgender, and especially being a trans women. They are subjected to ridicule and abuse, and a supportive family is a must. Some transgender people will hide their true identities - the most common reason for going in the closet is rejection by parents and family. It's much harder for them if they don't pass.

You can't really control the feelings of DC's siblings, but you can ask them to respect their choices and not be unpleasant, even if they are angry.

I would sit down with DC without judgment and ask them about their gender identity, when they first realised, and what it's like for them. It might reassure you that this is not a rash decision, but has been brewing for many years, and is really who they are. You could also help them with their gender expression - clothers and make up - perhaps something more toned down to start with would reduce the level of abuse they are likely to receive.

It would also help if they received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (if they have it) and to get some CBT.

It would also be useful to speak to parents in a similar situation - not just the host of gender critical people here - but others who are supportive, to understand their journey.

I'm not going to react to any posts on this thread, unless OP directs a comment at me.

You'll get a bunch of suggestions here for trans-denying support organisations, but you could also try:

https://genderedintelligence.co.uk

Edited

Can’t put it better than this really.
I think you handled it well and hopefully he has gone back to uni feeling heard.
Your younger children need to talk to him if they have questions and you all need time to adjust.
it must have come as a terrible shock and I really feel for you. As a parent you must worry that he will be vulnerable when dressed so oddly.
Give yourself time to process all of this. The main thing is that he still feels that home is still a loving and safe space.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 14:43

popeydokey · 07/10/2024 14:42

Hope you can ignore the sneering and laughing emoji OP and can gain support from other parents that posted.
@ExtremelyPrivate thank you for sharing that. It is so so hard to know what's going on inside someone else's head.

Yes, there are some fantastic, and eye opening posts from parents of both boys and girls on the thread.

popeydokey · 07/10/2024 14:42

Hope you can ignore the sneering and laughing emoji OP and can gain support from other parents that posted.
@ExtremelyPrivate thank you for sharing that. It is so so hard to know what's going on inside someone else's head.

Waitingfordoggo · 07/10/2024 14:42

This could be a phase, an attempt to get a reaction out of you all or it could be the real thing.

What do you mean by ‘the real thing’ @PrettyPickle? There is no situation in which a male is actually a woman.

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