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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

663 replies

Autumnleavesareslippery · 07/10/2024 09:13

I've name changed for this, have been a member for 19 years since pregnant with DS. I'm going to try and be factual as I'm in shock and dealing with a whole host of mine and my children's emotions. Yes I'm using 'he' here as none of us have got our heads around this. I'm trying to be very honest in how I feel and really need some support from people who have more of an idea about how to handle this than me.

DS (19) came home from uni on Friday. On Friday night at about 11 pm in the family chat he declared he was transgender. He informed us what he was called. It was an unusual name choice for a 19 year old - that of someone perhaps born 150 years ago. Think Enid. He told us he'd known for years.

All of us were in shock. I have DD (17) and DD and DS (both 14). I sent a message privately to him thanking for letting us know as I wasn't quite sure what else to say. He didn't read it and remained in his room. Didn't even bother with the usual teen response of a thumbs up.

Saturday and Sunday he acted completely normally, like nothing major had happened and he had told us he was vegetarian now or something. He seemed calm and relaxed. He looked exactly the same - a 6ft 2 broad shouldered man.

He then came downstairs to get a lift to the train station dressed as what I can only describe as a stereotype of what someone might think a woman looked like. Badly done make up. An odd dress that didn't fit. And started talking in a completely different soft 'feminine' voice and doing strange things with his hands that he must have deemed 'female'. He had lace like gloves on. It looked so outdated and strange.

The best way to describe it was he looked like Dame Edna or the character out of little Britain from 20 years ago in that the clothing was odd and it seemed almost designed to get a reaction. But he appeared to be deadly serious and nonchalant about it. A woman would have been clearly mocked if she dressed like it. It just leaves me wondering whether this is what he views women as?! Not that he knows any women who would act like this - he's surrounded by many women who express themselves in multiple ways but not in an Edwardian lady about to collapse way.

I drove him to the station trying to make small talk about the weather and his course and came back to everyone sat staring in disbelief. He's never said anything, acted in any way 'feminine' (whatever that means). He's at a RG uni, studying a science subject with 3 As at A level, and has organised himself a part time job. I only say this because life seems to be going well for him, rather than a potential response to something.

He is however autistic.

DD 17 is furious and says he's making a mockery of women and that woman is not a costume. She says he better not be going in female only spaces.

DD 15 looks stunned and keeps asking why he thinks he can just become a woman and what he thinks that means. She can't identify out of periods etc etc. DS 15 is laughing in disbelief. DH just looks completely confused and keeps muttering about getting loads of tattoos when he wanted to shock his parents thirty five years ago.

I genuinely don't know what to do next. Please bear in mind I'm in shock, had only just 'got over' my first born leaving for uni and all the emotions that brings.

I want to support DS19 with whatever gender expression he wants. When he still looked like him (and didn't appear to be 'dressed as' a mockery of women) I was shocked but we just thought ok, this is him experimenting with finding himself or whatever. But now I'm really worried about him and his future and whether others will look at him and think wtf. I'm also angry at the very (sorry to stereotype) 'teen boy' way he told us - late at night, no response, informing us what he was called rather than perhaps asking 'could you call me'. No consideration of the impact but I guess that might just be being 19.

I agree with what both of my daughters are saying. How do I say this because it then directly criticises DS? Do I accept he is an adult, has made his choices and my care and focus should be on them? I can't gaslight them and tell them they're wrong.

I'm now worried he's going to go into female spaces, as a clearly visible six foot plus male. This would make me angry.

He is at a university where I know lots of his lecturers (I am an academic in the same field). I know many are gender critical. Do I mention it to them first or let it be the elephant in the room?

I don't know what to say to my 85 year old mother. I think she will be very shocked and worried. I'm trying to work out if we have to tell her (she doesn't live nearby).

I don't know how much to talk to him or challenge this. I feel a kind of grief. I'm worried he's going to take hormones or do something irreversible.

We all dislike the name / think it's a very odd choice - which makes me feel very alienated from him.

And at the end of the day he's my 'baby' - I want him to be happy. I don't want people to criticise him. I want to support him but how do you do that when you question so much what he is doing? It wasn't the fact he declared himself to have a different gender but rather what followed - the declaration of name, strange clothing and fear of him going in women's spaces.

I also do absolutely realise he is an adult and can make his own choices and face the consequences. He has his own life (albeit he's being financially supported by us).

I guess it was just so sudden.

Any advice on what to do next would be gladly received.

OP posts:
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TriesNotToBeCynical · 07/10/2024 16:57

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 16:47

Not always clearcut at birth though. And some may be genetically male but phenotypically female, so whether you call them female or male is a matter of terminology, and how you want to define male and femaleness, not a scientific "fact". You can dogmatically define sex by chromosomes, but for some people that just gives the wrong answer. Doing so is dogmatic faith rather than science.

This is your opinion, and more importantly not actually relevant to the OP's situation. Her son doesn't have a disorder of sex development.

Indeed it is not relevant to the OP's problem. It is relevant to the faith-based statement by PP I was replying to that "sex is always binary". It smacks of intolerance and ignorance. I am not aiming to support the trans movement, just to stop people misusing science to support dogmatic social views when it doesn't.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 16:54

By adopting a trans identity, suddenly all of that self-loathing can be channelled outwards instead. It's no longer your fault for not fitting in, its society's fault for being narrowminded and bigoted. Coupled with the attraction of having a ready made community that welcomes you and affirms you.

So no, I think that this is absolutely something that can be "done on a whim", because the abuse someone gets for cross dressing, although perhaps more open and prolific, will be much less personally painful that the old feelings of being an isolated misfit.

Yes, I think this is a really good analysis of the mentality I perceive in some of these young people, especially the men.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 07/10/2024 16:54

Hey Red, any idea why your post was deleted by MN? I found it incredibly articulate and informative. Fair play if you asked but otherwise Confused

RedToothBrush · 07/10/2024 16:49

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Name5 · 07/10/2024 16:47

@Autumnleavesareslippery i would suggest you ask this question on LGBT children.
You will get help from people with real experience of gender questioning DC.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 16:47

Not always clearcut at birth though. And some may be genetically male but phenotypically female, so whether you call them female or male is a matter of terminology, and how you want to define male and femaleness, not a scientific "fact". You can dogmatically define sex by chromosomes, but for some people that just gives the wrong answer. Doing so is dogmatic faith rather than science.

This is your opinion, and more importantly not actually relevant to the OP's situation. Her son doesn't have a disorder of sex development.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 16:44

@Autumnleavesareslippery sorry if I missed it, but what was his relationship with his younger siblings like before this? Who was dominant, if any of them?

TriesNotToBeCynical · 07/10/2024 16:43

Lovelyview · 07/10/2024 16:31

I don't want to get the thread off course but just to let you know people with 'Intersex' conditions are still either male or female. For more info:www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

Not always clearcut at birth though. And some may be genetically male but phenotypically female, so whether you call them female or male is a matter of terminology, and how you want to define male and femaleness, not a scientific "fact". You can dogmatically define sex by chromosomes, but for some people that just gives the wrong answer. Doing so is dogmatic faith rather than science.

Edit: some females will never know they have XY chromosomes unless they are concerned about fertility or try to join an elite sport.

CatLady476 · 07/10/2024 16:43

I also got a What's App in the middle of the night from my son. Also autistic. It is an emotional rollercoaster - if you can, seek an experienced therapist for yourself. You will need a safe space where you can process your own feelings, without judgement or being pushed one way or the other. I've got to the point where I think maybe it's ok for me not to have the answers right now. Maybe it's enough for me to love my kid and time will sort out the rest. The most important thing is make it very clear you love them. That will not change - whatever. But it's the most enormous shock, esp when it seems to come out of nowhere.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 16:42

You're right, I wouldn't really notice men dressed as men, it wouldn't stand out.

Indeed.

Needadvicefor · 07/10/2024 16:37

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 07/10/2024 11:14

It is incredibly tough for parents, who have always know their child as a son to find out that they have a daughter - and one who is in one of the most mocked and villified segments of society.

OK I'll bite.They don't have a(nother) daughter. They have, at kindest, a trans identifying child. It's always puzzling to me when people talk about the most mocked and vilified segment of society. I guess when an obviously male person busts gender stereotypes of clothing, it is sad that they can expect mocking and ridicule, yes. Dressing as a trope of a woman and insisting that you are one when you have none of the lived experience of the shit that women and young girls have to deal with for being obviously female in society, let alone never having dealt with periods, risk of pregnancy, likelihood of sexual attack and so on, is also an act of mocking and ridicule, this time towards women and girls.

It's incredibly tough being transgender, and especially being a trans women. They are subjected to ridicule and abuse, and a supportive family is a must.

Yes, a supportive family is a must. This does not always look like unquestioning acceptance and conformity to demands. In fact, most of the time good parenting does not look like that.

Edited

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ManyATrueWord · 07/10/2024 16:35

Sounds like he has latched on to the cult element. Join up, change your entire self, life will be peachy.

mixedpeel · 07/10/2024 16:35

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 07/10/2024 16:05

Some transwomen dress exactly as you describe, jeans and a hoody, no make-up etc. Maybe you just don’t notice them?

You're right, I wouldn't really notice men dressed as men, it wouldn't stand out.

I was responding to someone who wanted to know why transwomen “always” dress in a certain stereotypical way, when that simply isn’t the case at all.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 07/10/2024 16:33

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 07/10/2024 16:05

Some transwomen dress exactly as you describe, jeans and a hoody, no make-up etc. Maybe you just don’t notice them?

You're right, I wouldn't really notice men dressed as men, it wouldn't stand out.

Well quite!!

OP I have a friend whose sibling is trans. It has been very difficult for her as their parents are not supportive so she feels she has to defend her brother (he’s not her sister) against them. She feels very conflicted as she’s been a victim of sexual assault so feels angry that her brother has assumed a female identity without having any real understanding of what it means in reality to be a woman. Her view is that he’s probably gay but afraid to say so to their very strict parents so she’s subsuming her own feelings about it.

all your DC are entitled to their differing feelings about this. Let them talk, don’t shut them down and with your eldest just reassure him that he’s loved and leave space for him to talk when he wants to

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 07/10/2024 16:32

Bigcat25 · 07/10/2024 16:24

I think you have to accept him. He hasn't had time to get together a wardrobe and find things that fit. The clothes/make-up/mannerisms might evolve with time.

Really? They have known for a long time they "are female", lived in a household with three females, been surrounded in every day life by females and had access to shops selling contemporary female items of clothing and they come downstairs dressed like Dame Edna?

Confused
Lovelyview · 07/10/2024 16:31

TriesNotToBeCynical · 07/10/2024 16:24

Sex is binary and immutable for most people, and it is possible to say that a physically and physiologically normal man can't become a woman without dismissing the lives of the small but real group with real intersex conditions.

I don't want to get the thread off course but just to let you know people with 'Intersex' conditions are still either male or female. For more info:www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/

TurbulentPriest · 07/10/2024 16:27

Maybe one way of triggering a discussion and challenging the caricature is to treat your DC as an Edwardian lady to the letter. Lavender bags and tapestry sets for Christmas. Not allowed out without a bonnet and a chaperone. Ladylike sized portions at mealtimes, and no alcohol. And if/when DC objects, that’s your way in to ask what it means to be a woman and why is that desirable?

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 07/10/2024 16:25

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/10/2024 10:20

Absolutely don't gaslight your daughters. I would just say that their brother has the right to wear anything he likes but of course they don't need to go along with anything they are uncomfortable with.

I wouldn't raise it with people at the uni as it might backfire on you and/or your GC contacts there.

This

TriesNotToBeCynical · 07/10/2024 16:24

Grammarnut · 07/10/2024 14:23

It would help not to accept this non-scientific nonsense and let the DS's brother and sisters have it out with him. He is aping women in a derisive way, whether he realises this or not, and needs to be challenged. Gender is a social construct. Sex is binary and immutable.

Sex is binary and immutable for most people, and it is possible to say that a physically and physiologically normal man can't become a woman without dismissing the lives of the small but real group with real intersex conditions.

Bigcat25 · 07/10/2024 16:24

I think you have to accept him. He hasn't had time to get together a wardrobe and find things that fit. The clothes/make-up/mannerisms might evolve with time.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 07/10/2024 16:24

You can't really control the feelings of DC's siblings, but you can ask them to respect their choices and not be unpleasant, even if they are angry.

///

There needs to be understanding on both sides here though ... siblings have apparently "lost" the brother they have always known and will need to grieve ... this is not always a measured or calm thing to do especially for youngsters. This coming out has ripple effects and as much as OP and her family will do the best they can to help this process along the child concerned must accept it will take time and be bumpy at moments.

OP ... sounds like you're doing well all things considered, what a huge shock.

As an aside though, why is it that for so many transwomen, expressing this is always as a caricature of women? I mean, what biological women actually dress like this?

Ohhbaby · 07/10/2024 16:24

A lot of these behaviours scream 'i want attention'.
It's a desperate call for help imo

Ohhbaby · 07/10/2024 16:21

Oh I'd let his siblings be honest with him.
Don't tell them to spare his feelings etc.
That's what siblings are there for.
His siblings should be allowed to say what they feel to him

Velvetcupcakes · 07/10/2024 16:14

I’m so sorry OP. I have two autistic sons your age and remember a mumsnetter named AutismProf doing an AMA several months ago. If I recall correctly she diagnoses autism in her line of work. She found the explosion of autistic young people coming out as trans worrying (in that there is definite confusion around not fitting in, especially in the black and white thinking of the autism community).

randoname · 07/10/2024 16:13

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