How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

Yes and not helped by all the lonely ones affirming each other online with their anime avatars.

YY.

The failure to distinguish between the fantasy of the online world and the immutable issues of the real world is part of the problem.

We've not done anyone any favours by pretending differently.

If it were me I’d stop worrying about what others think. They are still your DC. Support them, take them shopping and help them find their style. Talk to them about being in women only spaces and encourage them to use gender neutral toilets. Take yourself out of it, don’t mention you don’t like the name. How much do you want a relationship with your child vs how much do you want to be right?

Yes and not helped by all the lonely ones affirming each other online with their anime avatars.

I find it very difficult to see this as an expression of anything innate or otherwise "authentic". For me it's more like a zeitgeist. One that may be starting to shift in the other direction but only in patches so far and our slightly socially out-of-it kids wont notice that yet.

Yes, I think that's definitely a factor in how slow the tanker will take to turn. The "cool kids" at school might be taking the piss out of pronouns etc but not the more socially isolated ones.

Sometimes people dress in a way to make them unapproachable, undesirable to the mainstream. Think extreme goth…
The person then has a “reason” for not fitting in, being a loner, whatever. Person now also part of a “community”, and can feel hated, discriminated against etc.
Why don’t people like me? Why don’t girls like me? Why don’t boys like me?

Because I’m like this … This is my true self.

Just a thought.

Yes in spite of the absurd censorship - we keep supporting each other. Thinking about you OP. You are in a tough situation. Be very careful not to estrange your other children in a bid to support your son. Unfortunately there probably won't be enough affirmation in the world for him regardless of what you do.

Bayswater is a support group for parents. It is made up of parents trying to work out how to negotiate very difficult and distressing situations. Parents who care about their kids and are struggling with the implications of trans ideology.

Gendered Intelligence are entirely trans focussed. For them, the trans person is always right, and everyone else must change to accommodate them. The parents must centre their trans child and affirm him or her; no-one else really matters. If anyone is unable or unwilling to do this, they are transphobic and need to be shunned if they don't repent.

Mumsnet at its finest, yes. Women offering intelligent empathetic, articulate advice based on their own experience and the outcomes.

Yes, this thread is a credit to Mumsnet. The support here for women navigating immensely difficult situations is invaluable.

There are forums where trans people discuss how to dress, how to walk, how to change mannerisms etc etc.

Yet I think the subject remains off limits to family members because of this common trait of over-defensiveness and being primed to expect rejection.

This is why I say, it's easy to find yourself trying to be helpful and supportive but finding yourself being screamed at for somehow getting it wrong and not behaving in the expected fashion.

This why I say I think it's really relevant to talk about autism and more rigid expectations in this context.

The whole process of validating and affirming is often about being expected to over look the glaringly obvious and to be compliant with expectations - the whole walking on eggshells thing. It's really not healthy in anyway. It's about power and control. Just like anorexia is very often not about weight at all.

Families being silenced and stigmatised often because we are so fearful that something bad will happen to our family member, if we are honest, has meant that the whole understanding of what someone being trans is like is distorted. We have this notion of them being helpless victims who have been rejected by their families as a standard trope despite the fact that only a few years ago trans groups themselves were openly saying that it's not unusual for the opposite with trans people rejecting their families because they are a reminder of the past. We have this notion of trans people being bullied by family members yet when you actually talk to family members many will feel intimidated and bullying into submission over pronouns and names with genuine mistakes being viewed as major transgressions worthy of punishment.

The reality of it up close and in families encompasses a much wider range of experiences - including many which don't paint trans people in a particularly healthy light. Often precisely because there are massive mental health issues going off simultaneously which we are supposed to just gloss over and ignore.

Family members bottling up their own feelings doesn't work well either. It creates a pressure cooker effect which is combined with walking on eggshells. That doesn't lead to a scenario where everyone is content. It leads to one where a confrontation is highly likely, emotions are running high and everyone ends up saying or doing things which don't help anyone. You have to be able to talk about the difficult and inconvenient stuff as well as the nice stuff in ANY healthy relationship.

Parents are there to foster mutual respect and that respect is a two way process. They should encourage talking about good things and bad things and making a point that avoidant type behaviour is unhealthy. They should encourage independence of thought and creation of personal boundaries. They should also remind children that reality is a bitch and you can't live in a fantasy land and in the protective bubble of your safe space at that age because the big wide world isn't always nice, or fair nor can you live a fantasy life.

I find it depressing it's taken this long before pushback on the evil bigotted family narrative has been possible (the trans widows have made that much more possible).

We were scared to challenge because our kid was is extreme distress and we worried for her safety so other people's feelings were secondary at that point. BUT it doesn't sound like that's what's happening in your family so I totally agree why should you all feel uncomfortable?

I guess there's also an element of your parental desire to tell your kid if they are doing something ludicrous because for their own sake you want to protect them!

The total self-absorption and the obsession with one's own inner-identity is also pretty tedious. In truth if he's looking ridiculous you are doing him a favour by asking some questions.

In a way... this sounds bad but I feel relieved that your other kids are reacting the way they are.

A year or two ago, not long after DC had told me about being trans, I joined an online support group for parents of young people in their late teens/early twenties who like mine were taking cross-sex hormones. They were mostly American, seemed ordinary, working people or professionals, most of them more or less GC. And every one of them had multiple young-adult children who were all taking cross-sex hormones. That did come as a shock. And a worry as well because what happens over there tends to come over here.

Up til then I'd only personally know a couple of families, each with one "trans" child. But a few months later I met up with an old colleague and both her teen kids were now "trans".

I find it very difficult to see this as an expression of anything innate or otherwise "authentic". For me it's more like a zeitgeist. One that may be starting to shift in the other direction but only in patches so far and our slightly socially out-of-it kids wont notice that yet.

Parents also have a duty to other children and to be mindful of how one can affect the others and may make unreasonable demands of them.

This seems to be neglected in the rush to affirm without question and that's where a lot of families are quite frankly, totally abandoned.

We have it in law especially that we have a right NOT to believe in gender over sex. Why does this fail to apply to children? Why are we saying that children must not only indulge this but also rewrite their entire own identity and sense of self to affirm their sibling.

If you can't understand sibling rivalry dynamics and how a shift in dynamics might affect relationships you are pretty damn blinkered and naive.

Parents who demand that their children defer to one child are the ones who should be ashamed for not understanding and promoting tolerance of divergent ideas.

We used divergent ideas as part of a healthy society. Now that's been torn up by a bunch of people who claim to be liberals. Demanding adherence to a belief is as illiberal as you can get.

As for the actual matter of this thread I don't know where to start, this is so full of casual misinformation, strawman arguments,

You must've missed the bit where a large proportion of women posting on this thread are parents of trans children, or siblings and have direct experience. Or lived experience, if you like.

Mumsnet at its finest, yes. Women offering intelligent empathetic, articulate advice based on their own experience and the outcomes.

Sorry forgot to answer your other question @DoreenonTill8 it has the same first and last letter

I have to just let both children’s feelings be prioritised to be honest and she doesn’t feel sad, she feels conflicted because she wants her brother to just be ok no matter how he identifies. I don’t think she is affirming because she doesn’t feel like there’s a choice. We have a lot of very close LGB friends and those of different colours and religions to us and my DC also have friends who span the ND spectrum thanks to the inclusive schools they’ve attended, so we have always towed the “humans come in all shapes and sizes and it’s not up to us to judge them (within reason!) just because they’re different to us” line, and this has resulted in a child who is very open to people being who they are and allowing them to be who they want to be. It’s more of a challenge for me because I am obviously terrified of what the future holds for my trans identifying son while at the same time glad my daughter doesn’t judge anyone for being a different colour, religion, sex, nuero-diverse or gender identifying person to her.

it’s a delicate balance to celebrate her inclusivity and non-judgemental nature and at the same time educating her about HER rights and HER safe space.

we've been in the watchful waiting phase for over 2 years and our D.C. have very normal sibling relationships, they get on but they don’t talk about in depth stuff at all so at the moment we’re not rocking any boats.

Whatever.

As I said previously, comments like this, are clueless and harmful.

Your role as a parent isn't to be kind and indulgent. It's to raise your child well and to also be mindful of others - including those they disagree with.

@AreTheyOrArentThey that's rather sad for your 12 yo, do you feel she wants to be so affirmative or there's no other option.
How similar to her name has been chosen?

Just sending solidarity. Your son has lobbed a grenade into your family, let it explode and waltzed off to uni leaving you all to deal with the fallout, hasn’t he?

Your family sounds lovely and I would continue to support your DCs at home with the knowledge that you are all on the same page as this. I had/have one child who trans identified from 12, for 6 years ish, who seems to be desisting. Her younger brother was repectful and kind but he and 70-80% of his peers throughout school (ie, the ones NOT in the LGBTQ+ groups as gay or allies) all see this as eye rolling attention seeking. They are perfectly kind to such people (before anyone comes on and talks about this being bullying and transphobic and leading to suicidal ideation etc). Most of the 20% in my DDs peer group/year, btw, now 19 have largely dropped this cause and are either comfortably LBG and/or have moved onto other causes.

There is no need to reeducate wither yourselves or your children by seeking the ‘support’ of pro trans support agencies. Genspect, Bayswater and the organisation to support of siblings of those with gender dysphoria are good places to draw resources (though this doesn’t sound like GD to me as that presents much much earlier). Your DCs do not need to be made to feel guilty over their totally acceptable disbelief in gender ideology. Their right to think and feel as they do is protected in law. Moreover there is no ethical or moral compunction to reframe their feelings to accommodate your son.

This does not mean that honesty and compassion isn’t needed however. I would sit down with DS and talk to him - say the message came out of the blue, that there is nothing in his history to have lead any of you to have considered he was struggling with the sense of who he is and what sex he is. You can also reasonably say, honestly, that the way he choses to present is alarming and caused you/your girls distress but that you’d like to understand what he is choosing to present his idea of his female self in this way. You can enquire as to whether he is having friendship issues at uni, whether he is stressed and anxious, and would counselling help him understand what he is feeling. He may already have self referred so it would be useful to understand where he sits on this at the moment.

You are also within your rights to ask him to tone it down when he is in your home and around your children - your daughters. Whatever he is feeling does not trump the feelings of every other member of your family and it is also okay to communicate that to him too. For example my DD wanted family photos removes because it caused her distress - I refused as she doesn’t/didn’t get to rewrite my personal/our family history and memories.

Whether this is an issue over formerly unrealised homosexuality (ASC kids are emotionally/sexually 3-5 years behind their NT peers), sign of AGP, or an indication of downward spiralling mental health is something that needs to be explored with a professional. My advice would be to encourage him to get neutral clinical support to explore what he feeling/thinking. As an 18yo you have little say in what happens at uni and in the GP consulting room, but you do have rights when you are home and can reaffirm that he is loved, that his home/family will always be there for him - but that there are ground rules and a requirement for mutual respect that takes on board his younger siblings wellbeing as well as his.

FWIW I’ve read the whole thread and am finding the discussions very interesting. But for those of the “just tell him he looks stupid” brigades it’s not as easy as that. There is real fear of your child pulling away from you and estranging themselves and our son also went through a horrible mental health episode earlier this year (18months after first “realising” he was trans). He’s also incredibly sensitive and not the type for showing off or making demands so I’ve very much gone into cotton wool protective mode with him. He doesn’t talk about his feelings willingly or well at all and he needs to know our home is where he is safe and can be happy because frankly there are nefarious people out there (particularly TRAs) who I believe would do him harm so we’re going down the route of validation rather than affirmation to keep all
communication open as much as we can

Hey OP, I’m another parent of a trans identifying child and have posted a few times in the LGBT children section

our situation with siblings is somewhat different (our situation in general has for the most part been quite different to others’ posted experiences) as our DD (now 12) has not only been accepting and affirmative but has had her own trauma to deal with when we initially said DS (now 15) had to advocate for himself if he wanted others to call him a different name and pronoun and she has been quite distressed over knowing what the right thing to do is in front of which people. She wants her brother to be happy and feel safe and she uses his female (also very old fashioned and honestly a rubbish girls name - also not that dissimilar to hers though I think in this context not consciously so as it’s the name of a character in one of his favourite books) name and uses female pronouns. I’ve even heard her refer to him as her sister.

I’ve tried to gently guide her to think a bit more critically and when she’s had friends at school say they’re trans I’ve said to her to make sure they know she doesn’t care how they identify and if it changes all that matters is that they are friends to show that we all need to be open and accepting that most often people desist from transitioning. But honestly I struggle with her immediate acceptance, it’s like been gaslit but both kids!!

Thank you @RedToothBrush really useful. Lots to think about.
And a big wave to all the other siblings who've had a trans sibling lob a grenade into the family and for the OP for shining a light on us.

Was a great thread this has been. Mn at its best. Helpful, supportive, informative, good suggestions to make you think.

If I flip a coin 10,000 times, it might eventually land on its edge, but that doesn't mean that heads is tails.