How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans

I'm afraid I think that there are powerful patriarchal interests that are supranational, and have a finger in everyone's legislative pie.

That's news to me and I'm happy to stand corrected!

Maybe I'm influenced by some of the loudest social media voices being American 🤔 Also by the fact that I've recently finished working with a group of American trainers who shoe-horned identity politics into EVERYTHING.

But yes, I acknowledge it was a childish over-simplification!

I know you did qualify your statement as outrageously unfair, but legally speaking the wave of gender identity politics via recognition of self-ID started elsewhere, namely in countries in South America (Argentina became the first country to pass self-ID laws in 2012, and the neighboring countries followed suit, all before 2020) and Oceania.

Multiple European countries, including Belgium, Ireland, Portugal, Denmark and Norway (by a Conservative government to boot), all legally adopted self-ID in mid- to late-2010s, before the US did in 2021.

The current iteration of the transgender rights movement in the form of gender identity politics is not something that can be simply attributed to the US.

I really feel your pain on this. I'm over it all. I blame America for this - outrageously unfair I know- but as the old saying goes, America sneezes and then Europe catches flu. I feel like America's 'newness' means everyone is desperately seeking identity and now we are catching the obsession - but it doesn't belong to us. It's not ours to obsess over. Fast social change and increased cultural diversity here is probably adding to this desperate questionning of 'who / what we are'.

Your DC is misrepresenting the actual argument, which is that autism can cause body dysmorphia that can be mistaken for gender dysphoria and it's really important for clinicians to differentiate between the two.

This is the line the TRAs take on Twix etc… but I always push back that they are being ableist (disableist?) because of the 6+ ASC’s in my family, only one identified as trans/queer!

DC being older and already living away from home made it easier. I feel less responsible and we're not in each others faces all the time so it's easier to get along. We were visiting DC when DC told us, we weren't staying with DC so we had more space to process.

Sympathies to everyone who is wrestling with this. Hope you are OK OP.

My DC was diagnosed young with an ASC and is very aware that trans is associated with ASC. DC's response is that it's disablist and transphobic to say that if you are autistic then you aren't really trans.

This! This is basically the whole argument in a nutshell. You can't force the rest of the world to engage in your fantasy.

I might give it a try myself. Identify as the sole UK lottery winner and anyone who says I shouldn't be paid is being wealthphobic and needs to be kinder! I've always known I should be rich. I could end up suicidal from your insistence on acknowledging reality! Whaddaya mean I have to buy a ticket? Don't you know I'm special!!!

This is all very interesting.

My belief (not very controversial) is that being autistic makes kids more vulnerable to the exploiters online trying to 'sell' trans ideology because they already don't fit in/feel there's always been something wrong with them, i.e that there's a positive correlation but it's not causal.

But now I'm wondering if they tell kids that present as vulnerable that if they get an autism diagnosis it will 'prove' that they 'are' trans, i.e. that the link is causal and it's their destiny to transition.

My son first said he had gender dysphoria and was considering a gender 'reassignment' (hate that term) at 17. Then he asked for an autism assessment. Once he had the autism diagnosis, the narcissism started - the expectation that everything would now revolve around him and his needs - "because of my Asperger's" (not a term we or the clinicians used really, so perhaps also encouraged by someone online). (Do they tend to talk about Asperger's still in the US?) And also just the out-and-out unpleasantness. It's not who he used to be, so would not be classic NPD imo, but, like the other stuff, I'm wondering now if he's been given a script.

He's a proper little dictator now. One of respects in which I feel most terrible about the estrangement is that it's actually been a relief. 🙁

You aren't allowed to differ and everyone has to defer to the noisiest most vocal disruptor because me me me. And if you don't defer to the identity then it's punishable by shaming.

The level of outright abuse this carries is awful. There is no space allowed for other opinions, experiences or feelings.

That isn't helped by social media generally and echo chambers.

Frankly I can't think of more boring people than those who are so self righteous about stuff like this. And half of them are doing as 'allies' whilst talking over people directly affected.

I am so DONE with identity politics as a force it's untrue. It's so open to abuse and the shutting down of any sane conversations.

@ExtremelyPrivate I think I am there too. Had a discussion on another thread where someone was saying you should not say ‘those with autism’ but ‘autistic’ because… ‘identity first, innit’.

I pushed back (okay, took umbrage) because as a family - with at least 6 diagnosed ASD/ADHD people across two generations - we don’t call ourselves ‘autistic’ first. We reject the ‘label’ as labels tend to be definitive, limiting and exclusive. Obviously, we accept we are ND people, but our divergence is multi faceted (ASD, ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc) and varied between us, and is as varied and complex as every aspect that comprises our ‘whole’ selves.

Autism is a part of us, a lens through which we experience the world. It is at times a constrictive and delimiting, but at others it is at the source of our creativity and compassion. I and my kids hate the label and won’t say ‘hey, I’m autistic’ as our first introduction to ourselves unless it is essential or salient to something specific.

I was told that I and my family are in the minority, though. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, I too distrust the ND movement, the framing of a developmental disorder as an 'identity'. It is damaging in all the ways that you imply, and I can also see in other threads currently active on MN, how it is blinding people who are unaffected by autism to the real and severe disability associated with this condition.

While I agree with much of what you say I'm starting to wonder if there really is more overlap than suspected before. It will be really interesting to see if focused research proves this to be the case and how much of it is attributable to social factors like the ND movement, online groups, discord servers etc. We know autistic / ND young people are often socially isolated in daily life and increasingly seek connections online. They really are ripe for grooming of all kinds including by older narcissists recruiting 'followers'.

This does all make a lot of sense, but I want to add that even where they overlap, the narcissism and the autism will be two different things, and there is no intrinsic connection between them.
I think the overlap might often be one of two different things:

-- Autistic person is also narcissistic (for reasons not essentially connected with their autism), and their autism makes it harder for them to be aware of, police, monitor the boundaries between normal self-assertion and narcissistic tyranny.

--Autistic person is not also narcissistic but they are used and groomed for the gratification of other people's narcissism, and in this sense are a kind of human shield. They may adopt agendas shaped by others' narcissistic needs

My DS was intensely vulnerable to other people's agenda and may have fallen into the latter category. He was the opposite of narcissistic, very easily shaped by others' demands.

@CautiousLurker exactly! When you're caught up going from crisis to crisis, when the most important thing is supporting Child A to keep them alive - unfortunately everything/ everyone else falls to the wayside.

I obviously regret some of the ways that I have parented, but we're down a path now where we're trying to maintain a positive relationship with DD1, so that includes saying only acceptable things with her. It doesn't always feel honest, but in the face of poor mental health (and how can trans not be viewed in any other way?) I know no other acceptable way to continue.

@DoreenonTill8 Does that continue to harm DD2? Probably, it certainly feels as though that harms me. But we're tied together as a family and as parents we continue to try and balance everyone's needs. I'm not always successful in this, I am struggling. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'm all ears :)

I’m going to join this thread because I am in a similar situation. So far my child hasn’t wanted to tell any other family members so I am carrying this on my own. It’s been very helpful to see that so many others are in this situation. Although so sad, and makes me so angry, that there are people out there exploiting young people like this and medical professionals who really should know better totally abdicating responsibility for their patients - in my child’s case, an NHS GP who seems happy to just agree to endlessly repeat prescriptions obtained from GenderGP, who it now seems clear are basically charlatans.

I have followed this thread closely because although I don't have any direct experience of trans identifying children, I am just in absolute awe at the courage and honesty of some of you posting on here. These conversations are so important and have the potential to help many families. Thank you!

And your own needs @Kalalily .

I am in awe, and grateful, for the wisdom on this thread. Hugs to you all. And thanks for sharing. It really helps me consider how to analyze my godson and friend.

I am sat here in tears reading today’s posts. Thank you all so much for sharing so generously and helping me understand.

SquirrelSoShiny, keeping away from the ND movement is what we were doing, albeit unwittingly. My child, however, suffered constant bullying during childhood, they didn’t have an autism diagnosis as nobody ever suggested it and we didn’t think a label would be helpful. Consequently, they spent their whole teenage years in fight or flight when they should have been forming their identity. They then found something online which enabled them to self diagnose and ultimately land on changing gender as the solution. I can’t help but wonder if the rush to medicalisation via hormones is a desire for a quick fix.

An earlier post advised to stay away from adult gender clinics. This was my feeling too having read the Cass report but we are at a stage now where they are a young adult and will access hormones online via GenderGP, like all their trans friends, if we don’t make an appointment.

I pray that the pendulum will settle sooner rather than later. And, in the meantime, thank you OP and everyone else for showing me how important it is to keep all my children’s needs front and centre.

Not being forced to mask is a massively different thing from refusal to acknowledge and respect boundaries and harms to others.

That's the stumbling block.

Yes I really do understand how harmful masking can be having done it for decades and burning out pretty spectacularly but I do also see that it taught me how to live in society, have positive relationships, develop resilience etc. It actually limited the 'harm' that my ND did me in some ways while wrecking me in others.

I love the fist analogy! ❤️ Sums it up perfectly. Like all pendulums the ND movement has swung too far and is probably beginning to return to centre. Interestingly the trans pendulum is making the same slow reset. They really do seem very bound together.

In a nutshell in a bid to avoid 'masking' some people are being encouraged to do whatever the fuck they want whenever they want

It's true that masking, meaning attempting to act neurotypically, is genuinely exhausting, psychologically harmful, and sometimes physically painful. It's therefore reasonable to want to minimise the amount of masking you do. But there's a difference between saying that it's ok to flap your hands or wear sunglasses indoors and saying that you can do whatever you want.

"Your right to swing your fist ends where my face begins" applies here. No one is harmed if I slip my sunglasses on, but I don't have the right to turn the lights off without asking others in the room first.

had learned on line that presenting as suicidal MIGHt get them elevated up the Tavistick wait list

This is what happens when mental health services are under-resourced:

1. Teen is miserable.
2. No one is available to help teen because of under-resourcing.
3. Teen self-diagnoses incorrectly.
4. Teen seeks advice on how to game system to get the treatment they incorrectly think they need.

And all that is before even considering the impacts on the whole family of CAMHS misdiagnosing the teen, failing to diagnose the teen with the actual condition§, and affirmation-only "treatment" of the teens self-diagnosis.

§: I could write for a long time about how CAHMS missing my autism has harmed me, but I won't on this thread.