A book on autism which pushes the trans rights agenda

Oh, I found her review (she wouldn't like me linking it on a public site so I won't). This annoyed her particularly (most of it is a quote from the book). There's a trend online to expand the definition of neurodivergence to include various sorts of mental illness and personality disorders; I happen to know my friend is very against this.

"'Since standards for mainstream behavior are so narrow, there are a variety of ways in which a person's behavior can diverge--and be punished for diverging. Having frequent panic attacks is a neurodivergence, as is exhibiting signs of an eating disorder. If you struggle in your close relationships because of attachment trauma or an inescapable fear of rejection, you're neurodivergent too (you might also get stuck with a particularly stigmatizing label, such as Borderline Personality Disorder).

'Almost anyone can be viewed as defective or abnormal under our current medicalized model of mental illness...'

If we're all abnormal, and it's all about observable behavior, then abnormal is normal, and it doesn't mean anything."

@SeptimusSheep I had exactly the same thought!
Ten to fifteen years ago, none of the parent support groups etc that I attended said anything about gender. I attended one or two specifically aimed at parents of boys, but that all seemed quite sensible. The cheese sandwiches really was about as mad as it got. I worked in specialist provision twenty years ago - absolutely none of this gender malarkey. I'm horrified to read about Mumsnetters' more recent experiences.
Possible derail, but I sometimes wonder if some of the rot set in with DSM-V bringing Asperger's under autism in 2013. I don't say that to belittle those with what we used to call Asperger's, but because it seems to me like those with e.g., non-verbal autism have been pushed to one side. One of my children has a diagnosis of "high-functioning autism". There have been troubles, for sure, but nothing like on the scale of, say, a child with non-verbal autism and learning difficulties turning into an adult who is never going to lead an independent life. To bring this back on track with the OP's excellent posts, I am worried that the "identifying" into autism further pushes such adults and children to the margins of society. That the story ends up being all about those with the loudest voice - while we readily forget those who have no voice at all.

Sorry but a diagnosis doesn't really help with medication or appropriate therapy. Even after explaining that CBT can be damaging to autistic people (and I've done it before) and asking specifically for EMDR which has good results for autistic people, they still refuse and instead try to get you to do CBT.

As a side point both the trans and autistic people I know hate the usage "identify as". In their view either you are or you aren't. "Identify as" seems to be much more the usage of people who want to see themselves as allies, not by the people themselves.

I haven't read this book. A friend (autistic adult) and says she did not like it for other reasons. Among other things, Dr. price makes a big deal of his PhD in psychology as if it's relevant to the work, but his PhD isn't in clinical psychology or anything to do with autism. Also (again repeating her opinion) she thought Price was far too invested in extrapolating from his own personal experience and not considering the diversity of autism.

the self diagnosis question will likely never be answered satisfactorily, certainly not until it's at least possible for adults to access diagnostic services and the assessments improved. Some clinicians are still using testing designed for children.

I personally found Fern Brady’s book Strong Female Character really helpful as did my partner. Sarah Hendricks book is helpful in some sections.

I didn't experience any ranting (thankfully!) but the passive-aggressive undertone that I did experience achieves pretty much the same thing.

In one of my first sessions at the group (it was an in-person one), one person shared a meme around the table that said something like "When I mask, it's for you. Not me", along with a drawing depicting someone holding their head in their hands. At the time I thought it was a powerful, brilliant message.

But each time I went I began to realise how my approach to support my daughter with her autism (a combination of reasonable adjustments and helping her to build resilience) was out of step with the groupthink ethos.

Everyone masks. We all edit what comes out of our mouths or how we act. I'm not suggesting for a minute that it has the same impact on an NT person as it does an ND person, but the ability to mask is still needed. If we all said everything we were thinking or threw our arms up in visible frustration every time someone or something felt wrong, we'd have a broken society pretty quickly. Learning how to do some masking without it being detrimentally draining is an important skill. Instead of talking about this I.... masked my inner thoughts, smiled and kept schtum.

I’m in shock of what I have just read. Neuroqueer?? Insidious. The situation is far worse than I realised.

I didn't hear this phrase said, but I did hear "autigender" mentioned. Also lots of talk about how it was important to affirm. There was a memorable moment where a mum talked about her "son" (16/17 year female who identifies as a boy) and her husband, the child's dad, not affirming - I can still hear the mum saying "if [child] starts taking testosterone and gets a beard, [husband] will just have to get used to it". Everyone in the group apparently thought that was hilarious and laughed. My "masking" didn't extend to me laughing along but I did make every effort to keep my face neutral and hide how sad I felt for both the child and the husband in this situation.

Prior to my formal diagnosis I would only say it is suspected I am autistic. I have always been honest and said I was offended back in 2009 when it was first suggested. Particularly due to the stigma during that period. As a survivor of the care system and all types of abuse. I strongly believe that had the Trans ideology been so prevalent in the 1990s/2000s I would have seen changing gender as a way to navigate out of the CSA, DV and grooming. At this time I had a major self cutting issue, I still have the scars today. I fear for the young women currently being indoctrinated.

I am still seeing it with my work despite the Cass Report, all those young people have an EHCP with ADHD, Autism, GDD etc… yet are socially transitioned on their EHCPs pronouns changed etc…and supported by the colleges, even the internal record system has a tab for gender identity. However no GRC or deedpolls are ever received as part of official documentation. The autistic community had very much been targeted and captured in my opinion as an academic, SEND Professional, Care Experienced autistic women.

In my experience of autism support groups those running them are fully bought in to the trans agenda but most there quietly ignore it. For instance, I’ve been to a zoom with 60+ participants where we were asked to put our pronouns on screen and about 3 people complied. I think as with many things, the noisy activists are shouting the loudest but most people are quietly ignoring them and taking what they need from other aspects of the discussion. I do agree that it’s worrying that these activists have access to so many vulnerable people, though.

I went along to a parents' group myself for a while but I eventually quietly self-excluded owing to the heavy pushing of gender identity belief as fact.

When my autistic child was little, the autism groups locally were heavily pushing gluten-free, milk-free diets as a 'cure' for autism. I went to a few to be ranted at about how I was letting down my child (who would only eat cheese sandwiches and about three other foods).

Why does this have a similar feel?

Thank you for this thread OP.

I bookmarked it to come back to when I had more time. I'm glad I had the benefit of it being decluttered by MNHQ by the time I came to it! It looks like there was a fair bit of unhelpful posting going on. Unfortunately, when the conflation of autism and gender identity is discussed, it does seem to attract that kind of thing.

As PPs have said, I've also experienced a complete "capture" of autism organisations by gender identity belief. I'm sad for my autistic daughter that it means that I've not signed her up for any autism-related groups outside of school. Unfortunately the risk of her (re)conflating her autism-related puberty distress with a belief that she might not be in the right body is just too great. I went along to a parents' group myself for a while but I eventually quietly self-excluded owing to the heavy pushing of gender identity belief as fact.

Adding a link to a related discussion, in case it's of interest. It's about a blog rather than a book, but it's a great "counter" to the current direction of travel that exists in examples like the book on this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5050306-take-part-autistic-gender-critical-voices

@Brainworm your post really chimes with me. Especially the last sentence. Very tired of being told by adults with mild traits that they know more about my sons needs than I do.

I skim read the book - the first part was ok though I wouldn’t agree with calling yourself disabled and telling the world ( though author is not British so disabled might be seen differently there) but the examples of people owning their autism whom she describes were, I think, all trans.

Many (most) charities and organisations for autistic people are driven by fear of being cancelled/set upon by those controlling the dominant social media discourse about autism. There is no way of knowing how representative this discourse is of the total autistic population. What's interesting is that they have, more recently, been rallying against people saying that the dominant social media discourse is not representative of the non speaking and learning disabled autistic population. Here, the argument is that they, more than anyone (including parents who have cared for their children all their lives) know what this group need and want because only autistic people can know what is best for autistic people and no one else has the right to to comment.

The dominant discourse is that of autism being a super power that society refuses to value. Society is organised in a way that disables autistic people, and society needs to change so that autistic difference is accommodated and valued. Personally, I agree with a lot of this messaging, except for the 'super power' bit. I agree with viewing autistic difference as difference in some contexts, but also recognise it as disability in other contexts. I think it's great when people embrace their autism and say they wouldn't want to be NT. I also accept, and don't pathologise people who would rather not be autistic.

I think, as with TRA groups, autism advocacy groups are full to the brim with people with personality disorders who incorrectly misattribute their difference/distress/issues to being autistic and/or trans. Many are angry that they were denied a diagnosis (when a diagnosis has been sought), often accompanied by 'we shouldn't be subjected to NT professionals with their NT diagnostic criteria policing who can and can't be accepted as autistic'.

Most charities and organisation are appeasing advocates by saying they only use the term disability as it's necessary for accessing funding and support. In reality, those who work in statutory services and primary care are drowning under the weight of needs that would not be addressed by what the 'super power' and 'radical social model of disability' crew are selling.

My dd is on a long waiting list for diagnosis. In the meantime we were offered some group zoom lessons/webinar type sessions. We were directed to other resources. I looked some up and found some of them pushing gender ideology and it's not obvious from the blurb. I think it's a definite targeting of vulnerable children and families, there is so little advice and support we rely on books and websites podcasts etc recommended by others. But to see CHAMS directing parents to websites pushing this stuff makes me very uncomfortable. One website the facilitator spent a full 5 minutes raving about was all about nuroqueer and had as the opening page a man making the peace sign cocking his head with a coy/alluring/sexual smile.

How has this shit got anything to do with supporting my autistic children who are being denied education because of lack of appropriate schools? Minimal advice about that but buckets of individual stories or leading you to gender ideologies framed as advice.

It's not just the resources either. Took my son to visit an alternative provision. They had a rule no shoes inside and provided trans flag crocs for the children, trans posters on the walls and a toilet sign saying gender neutral (was one cubical it only had to say toilet!).

I thank god for mumsnet. I'd not come across overt gender ideology. I'd assumed when it says gender on a form it meant sex just phrased in a less crass way. I used the word gender myself. My eyes were opened when I started online dating as a woman seeking a woman. But without mumsnet I would not know if the drive to indoctrinate our children particularly our most vulnerable, nor would I know about the risk/loss of woman's rights. Now I check everything my kids are exposed to amd the provisions offered and its staggering how insidious and widespread this is

🤣

@CautiousLurker or you could have just self-identified ... oh wait...

Agree with this - I have clinical reports accompanying the diagnosis for both my children that total 15 odd pages each. Plus print outs of the QB reports and analysis etc that informed their diagnosis. I naively thought that the NHS offered the same thorough process.

As a result of this thread I’m now kind of grateful that we went private!

When your original NHS diagnosis is a letter of two paragraphs - the first saying they have diagnosed the child, and the second saying they have discharged the child - sometimes you've got to pay for a SLT or OT report to back up the support required, if you can't wait another 3 years to get to the front of the queue again.

I've had one child diagnosed by the NHS by a single HCP in 20 minutes with only my questionnaire; and then later diagnosed privately over 4 sessions with 3 different HCP and a wealth of forms and history and questionnaires from multiple people from different settings. That private diagnosis stands up more than the NHS.

I felt the same way until recently (am 55, what’s the point?) I was told by my kids’ clinicians I was very clearly ND and, as a student might find a formal diagnosis helpful, but it wasn’t until a series of life issues (with the aforementioned kids) triggered a period of severe anxiety and depression that I had a session with a very switched on Psychiatric nurse who felt I really needed a diagnosis.

His reasoning was that a ND brain interacts differently to anxiety or anti depressant meds, so a diagnosis can aid getting the right ones earlier. He also picked up on the fact that I said I had zero interest in talking therapy (fed up with getting the 24yr old recent psychology grad who cannot possibly understand bing a menopausal mother of two autie teens, one with ROGD/self-harming etc, consequential marital strains and the recent loss of two best friends also in their fifties… call me patronising, but maybe being AuDHD really is a factor 🤣). However, he pointed out that CBT is a waste of time with NDs with my profile, so having a diagnosis should lead to being allocated more appropriate therapy approaches.

So, finally, I’ve started the process of getting diagnosed to check that I really am AuDHD and not just a bit mad…

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who seem to think being nd is something they can self identify as, I know multiple adults who have no formal diagnosis yet spend a lot of time talking about being nd, glorifying it even and diagnosing every one they know too. These are not people who have slipped through the net, it's just they like attention and being different. So yes people do self identify and i personally hate it because it makes a mockery of those who have real diagnosis and real problems

Popopopipipi · Today 17:02

Having been through various different (and some expensive) diagnostic pathways to get the relevant ASD/ADHD diagnoses for my children, I tend to wince and think "did ya, aye" when I hear someone has self identified themselves as ND.

You can always diagnose that as them having self diagnosed as a tiresome, attention seeking waste of time, of course.

As one reviewer states ; if it had been called ‘Unmasking Autism in the LGBTQI+Community’ at least readers would have known what they were buying (into) from the start.

I am really fed up with the way the trans issue has hijacked not only LBG rights but neurodiversity.

The last thing I want to do is to make you anxious, but my son valued rational thinking, is an atheist, and seems to have fallen for a secular religion. All his scepticism has gone out of the window, and now that the boot is on the other foot I am the one who is an apostate because of my scepticism after initially going along with "be kind".