A book on autism which pushes the trans rights agenda

Just thought I would share this as several people had referenced the autism wheel - It’s not something I ever came across before this thread so am interested to understand its use.

https://ablelight.org/blog/why-the-autism-wheel-is-replacing-the-spectrum/

@AutismProf
I’m autistic with selective mutism & multiple speech & language difficulties. I’m sorry you felt my pointing out that selective mutism is not the same thing as a complete inability to ever communicate in any way was “casting it as trivial”. My comment very specifically referenced the Identify As group who - literally - talk over everyone else & are determined to make their experience of autism THE experience of autism, with no regard for anyone else &/or their needs. That mob are a disaster for someone with selective mutism as severe as your relative’s just as much as they are people with L2/L3 autism - I’m sorry I didn’t communicate that clearly.

Am sure that I didn’t dream the diagram showing varying support needs in autism as spokes on a wheel; but if I didn’t, I can’t seem to find it now. The idea was to show the huge variability in what an individual might require support with & who from & if that support needed to be continuous or occasional etc.

@Brainworm that sounds… 🫥

I do not claim to be autistic as I have not been diagnosed, and doubt if at my age there is much point. However, I share a lot of traits with my family members who have been diagnosed.

In my post I did not accuse any autistic people of being rude, If I was rude, I apologise. I can't see any rudeness myself, but perhaps that is my lack of insight or my lack of understanding of social conventions. The one point I was trying to make is that some autistic people have difficulty in understanding why "neurotypical people" behave the way they do, but they tend to learn coping strategies.

This may not be true of all autistic people, but some have told me this, and for what it's worth that is similar to my experience. My childhood, and to some extent my decades of adulthood, has been a long story of being baffled at how other people seem to know instinctively what is going on in social settings or in office politics, but I haven't a clue what is going on, how I am supposed to respond.

💐💐💐

Thank you for sharing this. The anonymous online world can be a strange place but there are also some genuinely lovely moments too.

This is such a great thread. It's really helpful to read all these different points of view.

I am overwhelmed and in tears hating that I am autistic and wishing there was medication or a cure.

My daughter has said this on occasions. Thankfully not too often and she does pull herself out of it. She's currently 15 and is finding the navigation of friendship (and feeling of rejection) really tough ATM. Sadly she interprets some people's reaction as rejection when it wasn't, and then her responses end up creating the net effect of pushing people away 😔 She does have friends but she struggles to recognise this at times. Bringing it back to the theme of the thread,.that's one of the reasons she's so vulnerable to a ready-made "family" of rainbow allies who would make her feel special and loved. It astounds me that some people can't see the social contagion aspect for vulnerable children like this.

I agree with all your comments. Some autistic individuals use it as an excuse to be rude and parents excuse negative behaviours. @BonfireLady supporting your daughter to access reasonable adjustments and build resilience is the best attitude to have as a parent. Your daughter would thank you as an adult.

My university environment is less of a challenge ( I am
very fortunate to have a support team within the University) for me in comparison with my employment environment though.

My autism is a disability alongside my deafness and physical challenges. There have been occasions where I am overwhelmed and in tears hating that I am autistic and wishing there was medication or a cure. I see my disabilities/needs as a Venn diagram some aspects are entirely separate from each other and other aspects overlap and we do not know where those challenges that overlap stem from.

Obviously RapidOnsetGenderCritic is more than capable of speaking for himself re the above but from my perspective, I agree that some of the language was clumsy but I very much appreciated what I understood to be the meaning of his points, when applied to how I support my daughter.

As her mum, I see it that my role when supporting her is to balance understanding and meeting her needs (reasonable adjustments) with helping her develop the skills to live in the world (resilience, strategies etc)

<ducks to avoid head being shot off by anyone reading this thread who dislikes the word "resilience" when talking about autism support>

Your post is essentially rude, there is no such thing as mild autism. Yes there are different levels and it impacts individuals in different aspects. Some individuals may have moderate or severe learning disabilities, or like myself maybe deaf and dyslexic therefore has a Venn diagram overlap of other challenges. As a highly educated academic (I do actually have high standards in social manners) despite my autism. Your comment is offensive, maybe society needs to learn how not to have double meanings and tell what I essentially see as lies in communication. I am never rude, however I am honest and straight. An attitude and behaviour professional colleagues within the SEND landscape have specifically commented they appreciate.

As for a slowness to socially mature, this is also offensive. There has been a shift in the expectations of young people and neuroscientists have suggested that the brain does not fully mature until 25.

Romantic relationships are based on mutual understanding, respect and attraction. My relationship with my husband to be is more honest no doubt than many allistic relationships, compared to the situations I read on Mumsnet. The same with my friendships, they are honest, loving and full of green flags.

The reality is Autistic individuals are constantly hearing the message they are defective therefore drawn to the MRA/TRA, INCELS who try to recruit them for nefarious and predatory purposes. I understand the enticement, you are groomed and welcomed to what appears to be a warm, caring environment which is what a majority of humans desire no matter if they are allistic or autistic.

"Mild autism" may show itself more as a learning difficulty than as a lifelong disability. People with what used to be called Aspergers often eventually work out how to fit in reasonably well with people who know by instinct how society works. So you could look on it as a slowness, a struggle, to reach social maturity and to understand and learn expected behaviours.

This is a fairly outdated conceptualisation of autism now. One of the reasons, a significant and important one, for removing the separate Asperger Syndrome category, was that research showed that the diagnostic categories weren't stable. This meant that children diagnosed within the different categories do not follow consistent trajectories and are often not diagnostically distinguishable as they grow older, or seem to switch from one diagnostic categorisation to another. So children might be diagnosed in early childhood with "classic autism" but grow up to present more Aspergic, and vice versa.

I also take issue with the infantilising idea of autism as "slowness", and delayed maturity, as if we just need to work harder to be like the allistic majority. Again, autism research has progressed from such outdated ideas.

Look , you have a really good point here about the different needs and groups of autistic people and those claiming to be autistic for quite possibly spurious reasons, and how "autism advocacy" too often doesn't include non verbal autistic people or those with learning disabilities.

However, it's not a race to the bottom and it's not helpful to trivialise any autistic person's experience. What you term 'episodes of muteness' , you are right, is not the same as being unable to speak or sign ever. However, it's not milder, it's just different.

A person with selective mutism (over half of whom are autistic) will experience intense frustration and distress about their inability to speak in certain situations or with certain people. Selective mutism limits lives; it prevents people from advocating for their health and well-being, getting a job, getting relationships, developing independence. It's not fair to cast it as trivial.

My family member who has autism with SM is hugely impacted by their SM to the extent that if they were not supported by family they would be unable to claim benefits or go shopping and would probably if left completely alone to manage their life, starve to death. That's not an exaggeration. The problem is the gap between the theoretic capability, as seen by society and support systems, and the actual capability. A person with non verbal autism and severe learning disabilities would never be expected to live alone without support, or claim their own benefits, or manage their own affairs. A person with autism and SM is quite likely to be expected to, and be unable to do so, or expected to 'get over it' and just start advocating and talking to unfamiliar people. Some do manage enough, some don't. But it's not at all a minor condition with limited impact. It's a severe anxiety based condition with extreme impact.

‘I identify as coherent’

Although I would put it differently, I can totally see what you're saying here from my perspective with my daughter. I went on a great parenting course ages ago that helped frame autism as a wheel of different spokes rather than a spectrum from "a little bit autistic" (mild) to "very autistic". Each spoke is a personality trait and you're either strong or weak in that trait - so the spoke has a spectrum. The overall shape around the wheel would show as a "typical" pattern for what is/was termed Asperger's for example.

My daughter is academically intelligent, has a strong sense of justice, really struggles to understand societal cues and has an incredibly strong fight/freeze/flight response when highly anxious. She fits the patterns of typical Asperger's and PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance).

Unfortunately that can all blend to result in some outcomes that go.... boom. For example, as a mini-boom (pre-diagnosis when she was about 6), she stamped on a child's foot. The reason she did it was because the child was sharing snacks with another. This was against school rules because of allergies.... so she took it upon herself to enforce the rules (missing the irony that stamping on children's feet was also against school rules 🤦‍♀️). Bigger booms followed, as she got more and more anxious because of unknown and unmet needs. I used to dread school pickup as it would be likely that she'd thrown stuff (occasionally it was tables 😬) and/or the class had been evacuated during one of her meltdowns. It took a long time to get her needs understood and a plan in place - I had to apply for the EHCP myself in the end because the school said she was doing fine academically, so no issue. Meanwhile, other parents (understandably!!) were fuming about the disruption to their children's learning.... but that's a whole other story 😬😬

Fast forward to now and my brilliant, witty, curious daughter is still emerging from her mental health crisis a couple of years ago. Her critical thinking is building but her challenges are still similar, despite her maturity growing. Out of the blue, she said the other day that she thought she was vulnerable to cults and also to getting involved in drug selling!!! Re the drug selling (for context, she's as much a geek as I was at her age) we had a conversation about county lines and she said everything very matter of factly - I pointed out that she knew the law on this and also how dangerous drugs were, so I didn't think she'd want to be involved in something that might hurt people. Her response was that it would be a good way to get pocket money and it wasn't her responsibility if people got hurt as it was their choice to take the drugs. If I flip things round to animals being in danger of getting hurt, her entire thinking process is different and she wants to tackle all the issues that are linked to it. Re cults, she asked me if I knew any locally 😬 I said that I thought there was plenty of this kind of thing online and often people don't realise that it's a cult. I then gave an IRL example of something very cult-like that I was sort of involved in a few years ago: Bikram Yoga. Yes, yoga classes!! I happened to mention to someone that I used to do these yoga classes years ago but got bored as it was 1.5 hours of the same 26 moves (1.5 minutes per move, drawn out over that time, with breaks) and from what I could tell, it was mostly about admiring your own body in the mirror. It had a weird competitive vibe about it, which I had no interest in..... anyway, I then watched the Netflix documentary about it.... and..... wow.

Edited to add: the person I was talking to about Bikram Yoga told me about the documentary and described it as a "cult", so it piqued my interest because of the similarities with other cult-like stuff.

Yup. I've come across this quite a bit as someone who works in the field. Many of those who advocate in this way have personality disorders rather than or as well as autism.

These people often also advocate for having doctors, teachers etc. who are also autistic. There is one group trying to set up a school where everyone, from governors through to mid day meals supervisors are autistic. Can you imagine if this were a reality and everyone was 'autistic' in the same way as they are (thinking their views and experience represents everyone's). This is the exact opposite to best autism practice that is person centred as draws upon, as a starting point, what is known to help many people with autism and learning disabilities. This is then adapted in line with each individual's preferences.

"Mild autism" may show itself more as a learning difficulty than as a lifelong disability. People with what used to be called Aspergers often eventually work out how to fit in reasonably well with people who know by instinct how society works. So you could look on it as a slowness, a struggle, to reach social maturity and to understand and learn expected behaviours.

Unfortunately, the social immaturity may also show up in one to one romantic relationships, and a couple including one partner with mild autism may have a lot of work to do to understand each other and this can be a painful process - but it can happen.

Lots of the “identify as” people shout very loudly (identifying as “advocates”) & drown out the carers of people with autism who literally cannot speak for themselves. Frequently having the absolutely nerve to claim that they are just as - if not more - disabled as those people whose advocates they reject. Often it is claimed that those who advocate for people with L2/L3 autism have no business doing so; with the Identify As brigade centring themselves so completely that they chunter on about their parents & teachers; utterly refusing to accept &/or acknowledge that their experience is completely removed from that of someone who requires 24/7 care. Episodes of mutism ≠ being unable to speak, sign, or use any kind of communication tool; having once got so wrapped up in your special interest you eventually had to dash to the loo ≠ being [doubly] incontinent; struggling to budget (that one’s more from the “neurospicy”) ≠ being unable to make any kind of transaction by yourself whether in-person or online…

”Diagnosis is a privilege” has been imported wholesale from the US to the UK & applied to any condition you can think of. So people without a diagnosis position themselves as lacking privilege (even when they’d be able to go private or in fact have gone private & have been told they don’t have whatever condition!) & manipulate SocJus dynamics to speak over those who are very badly impacted by things. Gah.

I cried when my son was diagnosed as having mild autism. The things that we hoped he would grow out of...he never will. His "bad habits" - rudeness, bluntness, lack of social awareness - they're not bad habits, they're him and he will always have to try to mitigate them. He has a lifelong, limiting disability.

I wish he could just identify it away.

We focus on supporting him, teaching him and reminding him that he has strengths and weaknesses like everyone else, just in different areas.

I agree with this, but apparently am a dinosaur and terfy to boot. I truly think that home and with friends and family is where we get to be our authentic selves.

I would never want to get back to a time where a gay man can’t reference going away for the weekend with their husband/kids (or vice versa), so I am not talking about having to hide/pretend to be something else… just that I don’t need to know the minutiae of my colleagues lives. I know their names/sex/work function, that’s all I need in order to interact with them or reference them in management or client meetings and writing. It’s all the clients/customers need to know.

I don’t need to know their religion, aside from the fact they may leave early on Fridays if they are Jewish, or need to pop to a faith room to pray a couple of times during the day so avoid scheduling staff/client meetings at that time if they’re needed. I don’t need to know if they are vegan unless I am arranging a staff social and I could care less the reasons why. Unless something in their personal life impacts work performance and/or requires accommodations… no-one needs to know.

We’ve gone full circle from people hiding who they are because of draconian, (homophobic/racist/misogynistic) laws that I am pleased have now gone… to arriving at the office psychically naked.

The talk of tensions between masking and being 'free to be me' leads into the 'bring your whole self to work' issue.

When at work we should bring the professional part of ourselves to work, not our full selves. Some people might need additional guidance and specification for doing this, alongside other adjustments. Organisations can also make universal design' adjustments to make the work environment more inclusive and enabling to those with different needs. All of which should be focussed on enabling people to do their jobs well and in as much comfort as can reasonably be afforded.

We start to get into grey areas when moving into non work related aspects. Many companies encourage employees not to make assumptions about sexual orientation. For example, when talking to a colleague about her recent honeymoon, not automatically asking whether her husband enjoyed it (she has a wife), instead using the term 'partner'. However, this is different to wanting to talk to colleagues about your 'ace identity' (aka asexuality).

As more people are feeling emboldened to demand the workplace serves as a place for receiving validation for aspects of their identity, the social codes and norms get more complex to navigate. This makes life more difficult for those autistic people who find social norms difficult to understand even in conservative situations where long-standing norms are in place and upheld. The 'queering of the workplace' doesn't seem to be doing much for productivity nor for the comfort of the majority of the workforce, including those with protected characteristics.

That's interesting. "Thinking of my negative thoughts as a parrot that I tell to shut up" is a very off-putting idea to me, but being aware that I had a habit of not challenging negative thoughts has been helpful to me. I can't see my thoughts as parrots!

CatFeet · Today 17:11

About 30 Dutch people are looking at me quizzically, because I burst out laughing...

😄

😂

Ah, thanks for this - I may have to email and just ask the question. It’s supposed to be independent of the NAS but if it’s really meant to be for girls and women, then it needs to be sex based (and therefore ideology free, in my book).

A few years ago they held a ‘gaming’ day at a local eSport centre for 16-18yos that would have been right up my DD’s street, but I was too wary of booking her in!

Sorry, you’re right! Chat with so many people on here and often muddle everyone up.

There are CICs like Appeer all over the country that are popping up with a female autism slant. I’d hoped they would be ideology free, but was chatting to a couple of ladies from the Birmingham and Scotland recently about similar groups and they’ve all found the ideology inclusiveness due, I think, to advice from the NAS.

I would like to see the NAS disavow Mermaids/Stonewall but they are still very present on their webpages!