Dawkins describes trans ID as a meme

The most common form of rape occurs in a personal intimate relationship, and is A common feature in domestic violence is the very epitome of assertions of power and control, as is the rapes that occur.

raping a sleeping victim is the most sure way to assert power.

the next most common is a rapist who is known to the victim, (used to be called date rape or acquaintance rape). The rapist does not concern themselves with consent.

The least common is stranger rape.

Lack of consent is the key feature in rape, rapist are not driven by sexual desire, for the target, of violence, they are driven by attitudes to mostly women that they can have power over them, where that may not exist in their wider lives.

Or some other twisted attitude towards women in general.

Rapists do not fancy or desire their victim, they get off (ejaculate) because they have taken power from another.

It is not an actual expression of sexual desire. Nor is it an act of sexual expression.

If the victim is not reciprocal or fights, the more thrilling it becomes. The thrill and gratification is the motive and the cause of satisfaction.

Sure some have. Fantasies about rape, in a sexual way. This is not the same thing.

Rape is the worst violation that can happen apart from murder.

The logical conclusion for those questioning this well established and accepted principal, lead us to the idea that women can prevent rape by compliance, dressing less proactively and staying in or be chaperoned.

I cannot believe that people still harbour such appalling and regressive views.

.

' If you'll excuse me , I'm just going to take a dump.' Oscar Wilde.

Rape doesn't have to be about just one thing, though does it?

I'm sure power AND sexual gratification come into it for many men

That seems quite unlikely. Why would you think that?

Handedness is determined in the foetus in the womb.

It's isn't actually, it's not biological.

People who study those kinds of ideas in communications are a totally different specialty. They tend to see Dawkins in much the same way trained philosophers and theologians do - as an amateur who comments without bothering to read any of the basic literature.

I would invite everybody to overlap the graph of handiness (four time increase over 50 years) to the graph of referrals to the GIDS (approximately forty times increase over 10 years for girls). Do the graphs look the same? Has trans acceptance spread like wildfire over the course of 10 years? Or should we look at other factors to explain this massive increase?

So for example when a woman is penetrated by her partner while she's asleep - it's not in any way motivated by sexual gratification? Or when predators groom children to get access to them and rape them? It's never, ever because men want gratification?

I apologise for being offensive and I'm not trying to be. But I am starting to question this. Your answer doesn't explain why this act of sexual violence is not in any way related to sex.

I'm not saying it isn't about power - obviously that's a major factor. And I'm absolutely not saying it's "about sex" for the victim. But sex is involved, and it doesn't have to be for a man to exercise his power.

I'm genuinely not trying to have a fight. This was discussed on another thread a few weeks back and it was a calm and reasonable discussion. Can you explain why it is such a bad thing to question?

what Terry I can be very certain because i have worked in sexual and domestic violence services for natal women since 1991, and worked across agencies, on the CPS serious crime panel, Set up MARAC’s, steered development of specialist SV services, worked directly with women, ran consultations. Is that enough, I could give you more.

your throw away statement is deeply offensive to victims and those who have supported a victim with no basis in reality.

I don't think "End of" is helpful - how can you be so certain? It can discussed can't it?

Rape is not about sexual gratification, it is about the power of the male perp over his victim. End of.

Yes that. I'm not sure it's that simple. I think some instances of rape do involve men getting sexual gratification and that that is a motive.

Rape is not about sexual gratification, it is about the power of the male perp over his victim. End of.

Oh I didn't recognise the quote! But it's a thing that's often said about rape, and I've begun to question it recently.

“Everything in the world is about sex — except sex. Sex is about power.” (Oscar Wilde)

Fair points, I was just pondering really, I do think lefthandedness is much more like homosexuality than it is like transness.

However as we all know, sex isn't about sex. It's about power.

I don't agree with this but I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic (no shade just not sure). It can be about both or either IMO.

Most realistic estimates of homosexuality occurring in males are somewhere between 2 and 3%, even including bisexuality, it doesn't go much higher than that.

Well if were are to continue that creaking comparison, right handed people who lose their right hand "become" left handed overnight.

Heterosexual people in single sex communities (e.g. prison) "become" homosexual.

However as we all know, sex isn't about sex. It's about power.

The more I think about it, the more I think left-handedness is a much closer analogy to gayness which only serves to show how unlike trans identity they both are.

It's innate
You have a natural tendency towards one, the other or both
Non-typical handedness/sexuality around 5-10% and somewhat more likely in males
Was suppressed/punished/subject to "conversion", now less so
Doesn't require anyone else to alter their beliefs about reality, just refrain from persecuting you

The argument that its not social contagion, rather that there have always been lots of secretly trans people and it's only now that they are free to come out and be their true selves doesn't bear up to scrutiny.

If this were true, why weren't swathes of those historic trans people dying by suicide for no discernable reason, as we are told will happen if trans people aren't allowed to be their true selves, let alone affirmed?

Both those things cannot be true at the same time.

Also, how can it be true that trans people are the most oppressed and marginalised group ever, if it's also true that society is so much more accepting now that they are choosing to come out in droves?

Either society is accepting, or it's not. It can't be both.

Oh no the left hand/right hand binary! What about those born ambidextrous?
It’s a terrible analogy.

It is, but at that point of the thread I had given up trying to make any sense of anything.

Ooh it's like TRA bingo today - I see DJ has trotted out the old 'it's not my job to do the work for you'

But then almost immediately after that, required sources from other posters!

You can see the effort required to slap down and rebuff all reasonable questions and appeal to "science" as proof, without being willing to apply rational scientific or logical thought themselves.

Oh no the left hand/right hand binary! What about those born ambidextrous?

It’s a terrible analogy. Everyone ((bar unfortunate circumstances) has two hands, but everyone has only one sex (bar ambiguities because of DSDs, which nowadays can be clearly resolved). People can use both hands (of course), but generally have a preference for one or the other, predominantly the right hand, for reasons that are probably related to genetics (handedness is weakly heritable), or may be developmental. This has resulted in societal pressure for conformity, partly for practical reasons, but which resulted in some children being treated very badly. A desire to be of the opposite sex is nothing like a preference for the use of one hand or the other, and the idea of gender identity is just that - an idea, and a very ill-defined one.

The use of a graph representing left-handedness to draw an analogy with trans identity is exactly the sort of disingenuous argument deployed by genderists. What they want people to think is that more people are expressing trans identities now because previously they were prevented from doing so, in the same way that left handed children were prevented from using that hand to write with. The only similarity is in the shape of the graph. Lots of graphs look like that. It does not mean that there are similarities in the underlying circumstances that generate the graphs.

Ooh it's like TRA bingo today - I see DJ has trotted out the old 'it's not my job to do the work for you' (a close relative of the argument 'if you don't know then I'm not going to tell you!), when asked for evidence to support his position.

Great way to change people's minds, that is 👌

I do wonder whether he actually believes the stuff he posts.

Robust scientific research. I think it was the Dutch Study which lead to the Dutch Protocol. A cohort of youngsters, boys and girls were asked questions before they ‘transitioned’. Disclaimer: I don’t know what a supposed ‘transition’ entails. I do know that nobody can change their sex.

One thing that struck me was how dishonestly one of the results was collected and presented. The girls (who wished to be boys) were asked about their periods when they first joined. I think dysphoria may have been involved. Not happy bunnies about having periods.

Then there was a sleigh of hand when the question was repeated after the supposed ‘sex transition’. They switched who they called boys and girls. So, instead of asking the girls to whom they initially posed the question, they now asked the boys the follow up question about periods. These supposed ‘girls’ (actually boys) were questioned if they were now unhappy about their periods. The males miraculously had no problems with their periods. Hallelujah, body dysmorphia about their periods cured.

Moral of the story, if you ask biological males about their periods, they don’t mind them too much. We’ll never know how the girls felt as they weren’t given the follow up question.

Sh*te like that was being produced as ‘research’.

If you have 32,000 schools and 10 million school children and the majority of trans kids in those schools were able to come out, you would absolutely expect a handful of schools to have a disproportionate number of trans kids.

If we were talking about an illness and the likelihood to have it is .55% in the population, but school children had it at a greater rate - some school having particularly high rate, say 5 out of a class of 30, no it wouldnt just be shrugging off as one of those things. We would look to see why this group is particularly susceptible. If nothing else to gain more of an understanding about the illness.

The fact that school children seem more likely to be trans than middle age women, and some schools more likely than others, and the medical profession is not looking into it, suggests that the gender clinics know its social contagion. Because any other explanation would be useful to understanding trans, wouldn't it?