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Original poster

Macmillan Cancer Support leaflet aimed at trans patients: "regressive, unscientific and generally very poor advice" says nurse

60 replies

IwantToRetire · 29/09/2024 01:24

(Some may find this article distressing to read if they or friends or family have suffered from cancer.)

The leaflet, titled “LGBTQ+ people and cancer”, is produced by Macmillan Cancer Support in partnership with a group called “Outpatients”. It is quite possibly one of the most offensive pieces of healthcare literature, amended to include people who “identify as” the opposite sex, that I have seen thus far.

" ... Your team will talk to you about where you will stay. Hospital wards may be single sex or mixed. Where you stay should give you privacy and keep you safe. If the hospital has single-sex wards you will usually be able to stay in a ward which matches the gender you identify with.

" ... Some health conditions are still often treated in clinics that are gendered. For example, if you have a problem affecting the vagina or nearby pelvic areas, you may have an appointment at a women’s health clinic. A problem affecting the prostate, you may be given an appointment at a clinic for men. These clinics can be difficult to cope with if your gender identity does not reflect the sex you were assigned at birth.

" ... If you were assigned male at birth and have had genital reconstructive surgery. If you have had surgery to make a vagina, the risks of cancer in this area are thought to be low. You do not have a cervix and do not need to go for cervical screening (a smear test).

" ... Sometimes surgery to treat cancer is also gender-affirming. Surgery to remove the cancer may remove a body part that you prefer not to have anyway.

Extracts only - full article at https://thecritic.co.uk/gender-identity-ideology-is-undermining-healthcare/

Gender identity ideology is undermining healthcare | Jean Hatchet | The Critic Magazine

Weston Park Cancer Centre is a well-respected hospital in Sheffield, providing excellent cancer care and research to more than two million patients every year. The hospital is never mentioned in less…

https://thecritic.co.uk/gender-identity-ideology-is-undermining-healthcare

OP posts:
Occasionalnamechanger · 02/10/2024 01:31

Health isn't just about biological facts though. It's generally considered good practice now to treat the whole patient and create space where they can be comfortable and aren't going through something that feels like a hazing ritual to access medical treatment.

That isn't just for trans patients. It's for lots of different groups - so, lots of NHS provide kosher or halal food on the wards for example, which isn't a hard-core scientific necessity either but is about supporting the whole person and treating them with dignity and respect.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 02/10/2024 01:03

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be a leaflet.

What is being said that NHS staff, or whoever, shouldn't have to collude with the fairy tale of changing sex.

ie the leaflet should be titled and stated throughout that those people who have a gender identity need to remember, as it is and can be a matter of life or death, that having a gender never changes your biological sex. Therefore in relation to health threatment and working with health professionals you HAVE to work with them on a basis of honesty and discuss your health issues from the basis of your sex.

Health professionals should NOT have to play the Emporer's New Clothes double speak.

Be trans, but dont expect people to collude with the lie in your head.

And most of all dont but an extra burden on an already over stretched NHS.

So the leaflet is doing trans people no favours because it again makes out they are these very special people who everyone else has to dance around and collude in their internal fantasy. Which implies that everyone else is not deemed to be as important.

This is a health isssue.

Health is about biological facts.

And biology says you are and always will be the sex you are born.

OP posts:
SqueakyDinosaur · 01/10/2024 23:11

Also, speaking as someone who's been treated for cancer and spent more time than I want to think about hanging around the Royal Marsden in various waiting rooms, Macmillan publishes approximately 32398793393275 different leaflets for different groups. It seems perfectly reasonable that there should be one for trans-identifying people.

Enoughwiththisshit · 01/10/2024 22:58

ElleWoods15 · 30/09/2024 08:44

Where does the leaflet actually say that trans women are demanding the opportunity to see a gynaecologist?

Most of the upset on this thread is pure projection of the posters’ own views.

The leaflet is clear that trans people will need to be treated for certain cancers in clinics for people of the sex they were assigned at birth. It acknowledges this might be uncomfortable. However, nowhere does it suggest that trans women are up in arms demanding the right to see a gynaecologist as you seem to think.

With respect, the vast majority of posters on FWR are clearly not the target audience of this leaflet, and you’re just looking for things to get arsey about.

Show quote history

Absolutely this. I don't often agree with ElleWoods15 in this particular forum, but here I definitely do.

ElleWoods15 · 01/10/2024 22:53

Catsmere · 01/10/2024 22:15

Ooh, "transphobic". Don't make me laugh.

Would you expect anorexia patients to be put with those in for bariatric surgery because they think they're fat?

Why should men ever be placed in women's wards?

I mean, I’d look back at your posts for some examples of the transphobic rhetoric, but that’s a bit hard on this thread….

Catsmere · 01/10/2024 22:15

Ooh, "transphobic". Don't make me laugh.

Would you expect anorexia patients to be put with those in for bariatric surgery because they think they're fat?

Why should men ever be placed in women's wards?

GinnyPiggie · 01/10/2024 12:03

I don't really see the problem with this leaflet. It's plain english and largely accurate.

It should state that many hospitals will try to accommodate trans people in separate rooms wherever possible, which is usually the case.

ElleWoods15 · 01/10/2024 11:59

Catsmere · 30/09/2024 22:48

The leaflet is clear that trans people will need to be treated for certain cancers in clinics for people of the sex they were assigned at birth. their sex, which is observed at birth and cannot be changed.

FTFY.

As i said before, this leaflet is aimed at trans people not at MN GC posters. Why would you expect it to include the transphobic rhetoric you spout@Catsmere?!

Catsmere · 01/10/2024 02:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 01/10/2024 00:41

sex, which is observed at birth and cannot be changed.

This is about health. You cant have health professionals playing along with a fantasy.

If people want to be trans whatever (70s gender benders) that's fine.

What isn't fine is the whole emporer's new clothes we are being told to adhere to. Be trans but dont fool yourself you have changed your sex, and absolutely dont expect other people to collude in the lie.

If this was the trans reality than hogwash leaflets like this wouldn't have to be written. The pressure to write these lets all play a game of pretend, is exactly what TRAs want.

For us all to dance to their tune.

OP posts:
Catsmere · 30/09/2024 22:48

The leaflet is clear that trans people will need to be treated for certain cancers in clinics for people of the sex they were assigned at birth. their sex, which is observed at birth and cannot be changed.

FTFY.

ElleWoods15 · 30/09/2024 08:44

OhcantthInkofaname · 30/09/2024 01:29

Boy are you right. A GYN is used to treating natural disorders of the female reproductive system. A transwoman is manufactured.

Show quote history

Where does the leaflet actually say that trans women are demanding the opportunity to see a gynaecologist?

Most of the upset on this thread is pure projection of the posters’ own views.

The leaflet is clear that trans people will need to be treated for certain cancers in clinics for people of the sex they were assigned at birth. It acknowledges this might be uncomfortable. However, nowhere does it suggest that trans women are up in arms demanding the right to see a gynaecologist as you seem to think.

With respect, the vast majority of posters on FWR are clearly not the target audience of this leaflet, and you’re just looking for things to get arsey about.

OhcantthInkofaname · 30/09/2024 01:29

XChrome · 29/09/2024 02:04

What fresh hell is this?
They want gynecologists to treat problems with artificial vaginas? Why not the cosmetic surgeon who made the fake vag?
Oh, but that would be "difficult to cope with."
They must have the affirmation of being able to see a gyno.
Batshit.

Edited

Boy are you right. A GYN is used to treating natural disorders of the female reproductive system. A transwoman is manufactured.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 30/09/2024 01:06

I have to say my overall response to the leaflet, its purpose, was just can we stop with the fudge.

This playing along with the lie that you can change sex.

Its just seems madness that for a health issue as serious as this, health professionals are tying themsleves is reality avoidance speech.

Surely we must reach a point where someday, assuming there are still those who want to transition, whether medically or through identity, will no longer be pandered to in the fantasy that they have changed you biology.

Why cant grown up health professionals say, as you know although you have transition to your prefered gender, you body remains the biological sex you are born. You need to accept this to not only be aware of health issues related to the sex of your body, but also so that health professionals can treat you appropriately.

That's all the leaflet is really about.

Forcing highly skilled people to cover up the lie about the reality of biolgoical sex that no amoung of operations, or strong personal identification can change.

Not forgetting the terrible occasion in the US when a transman arrived as a hospital emergency complaining to terrible stomach pains. To cut a long story short, after various suggested prognosis, it turn out these were birth pains. If i remember rightly the baby didn't survive, which is just shocking.

But also, without wanting to dwell on the details, if as a transman you have been having PIV sex wouldn't you just for a moment at some time wondered about getting pregnant.

But to continue the charade at the expense of your own health, and in this instance a baby's, its beyond comprehension.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/05/16/pregnant-transgender-man-births-stillborn-baby-hospital-missed-labor-signs/3692201002/

Nurse mistakes pregnant transgender man as obese. Then, the man births a stillborn baby

\

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/05/16/pregnant-transgender-man-births-stillborn-baby-hospital-missed-labor-signs/3692201002

OP posts:
Catsmere · 29/09/2024 22:03

Pity the Foreign Minister couldn't grow a brain!

YellowAsteroid · 29/09/2024 17:46

If you don't know you don't have a cervix post 'affirmation' surgery I would question how informed your consent was.

Well M. Willoughby thinks they have one and our Foreign Minister thinks TiMs can grow one.

YellowAsteroid · 29/09/2024 17:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well you know, having a female sex-based cancer is soooo cis-privileged, doncha know?

Apols for using the c-word.

theemptinessmachine · 29/09/2024 17:18

". Your team will talk to you about where you will stay. Hospital wards may be single sex or mixed. Where you stay should give you privacy and keep you safe. If the hospital has single-sex wards you will usually be able to stay in a ward which matches the gender you identify with."

And what about the privacy and safe space for women ? To quote Ricky " you know the dinosaurs - the ones with wombs"

AuldBaldie · 29/09/2024 14:06

So if I understand correctly, a transwoman with prostrate cancer could choise to be admitted to a women’s ward. And that would require surgeon, doctors, specialist nurses, to schlep from one area of hospital to another in order to complete rounds, do dressings, etc?

Have I got that right?

Circumferences · 29/09/2024 13:52

The leaflet seems reasonable but this line:

you will usually be able to stay in a ward which matches the gender you identify with.

Made me gawp, feel really uneasy and I'm sure can't be true.

I do feel a bit sick whenever I hear any version of this in various contexts and scenarios.
Because we all know, any man ever could simply utter the magic words don't we.

ElleWoods15 · 29/09/2024 12:58

quantumbutterfly · 29/09/2024 11:19

I'm also wary of lumping LGB & TQ+ together, but that's just me.

The Macmillan leaflet linked though is actually labelled Transgender and NB people and cancer.

The LGBTQ+ leaflet is different although cross refers.

MarieDeGournay · 29/09/2024 12:22

quantumbutterfly · 29/09/2024 11:19

I'm also wary of lumping LGB & TQ+ together, but that's just me.

No it's not just you quantumbutterfly, you've put your finger on one of the most damaging aspects of trans ideology.

LGB has been eclipsed by TQ, and in the area of health services, it's really significant - the health needs of trans patients, especially those who have gone down route of life-long meds or surgery, are totally different from the health needs of LGB people.

This leaflet is aimed at trans people, it is of no relevance to LGB people, so I sort-of agree with BobsyaRuncle 'It's very clear who it is aimed at.', but that was undermined by labelling it “LGBTQ+ people and cancer”

The one part of this leaflet that I liked was where it explained to trans-identifying people they may have to bite the bullet and go to a clinic 'gendered' clinic if their medical complaint is specific to their original sex. That was a welcome dose of reality and common sense, and I didn't mind that the leaflet acknowledged that it would be 'difficult' for trans patients to do so.

quantumbutterfly · 29/09/2024 11:19

I'm also wary of lumping LGB & TQ+ together, but that's just me.

quantumbutterfly · 29/09/2024 11:12

I was feeling ' be kind' till the 'you probably didn't want that anyway' bit.

The cancer sufferers I know were grieving losing parts of themselves piece by piece, feeling shite because of chemo or radio. Worrying about their loved ones and the prospect of metastasis.

I'm all for making the process more emotionally bearable and medically accurate.

I think that most people buying into the trans construct are a bit caveat emptor. If you don't know you don't have a cervix post 'affirmation' surgery I would question how informed your consent was.

BobsyaRuncle · 29/09/2024 10:54

It's very clear who it is aimed at. The only reason I can think to object to any of it is if you just don't think trans people should be acknowledged in any setting. Which is an opinion, of course. But don't pretend it springs from any noble motive.