Why do all trans discussions end in a bun fight?

I think it has come to something when a statement such as "women need female only spaces in some circumstances" is seen as transphobic rather than pro women.

FWIW I also believe that trans people need and deserve specialist spaces in some circumstances as well.

What 'anti-trans' sentiment? Can you give any examples.

Op I have a young trans relative. Their health and the health of their trans partner has been ruined because they were led into this dangerous ideology. The trans partner is unable to work full time. If your daughter is not yet showing the damage this does to young women then she will and possibly soon. The best support you can give your child is to get her out of the cult. I know that's extremely difficult and you may never manage it but whenever your child supports this cult and encourages anyone else along the same road then she is doing harm to other young people.

Women generally wish to protect children from harm. Trans ideology harms children.

Nonsense, it is not ‘their very existence’ that causes harm. It is the ideology they uphold and espouse that causes harm.

For someone who thinks MN is the epitome of transphobia and that the sex and gender discussions here are not pro-women (because you know the difference of course), you don’t appear to be able to articulate how and why. And you went to Cambridge no less! (Not sure why you felt the need to point that out).

Indeed

Interesting answer @WaitingForMojo because obviously I think I'm not one of those women who work against women's rights, because I care about my and other women's and girls' sex based rights. Can you explain how you evidently think that is incorrect?

How? You can't change sex. Even if you believe in gender...

Do you also understand the only reason you got to go to Cambridge is because of the actions of generations of women before you campaigning for the right for women to have an education.

See Afghanistan for an example of how things use to be in this country, over there you wouldn't be aloud to speak let alone have a 'cause'.

I'm a woman and I don't agree with most of the anti trans sentiment on here. OP you would have been better to start this in another section of the board, although there is no way of having a civilised discussion about trans people on mumsnet at all.

So you’re pro women who agree with you? Not all women?

Like you then 🙄

I can understand it, and I went to Cambridge, thank you.

Liz Truss went to Oxford.

Before that can be answered we need to be clear what you mean by woman

do you mean adult human female

or do you mean adult human female + men who say they feel like a woman (however it is that all women are meant to feel)

No, I'm not.

Can you explain what you think 'pro-women' means rather than random guesses at what I think? Then I can see where we might agree or disagree.

Indeed

How ironic.

So, OP, your daughter follows a belief system that reinforces oppressive and regressive sex stereotypes, destroys freedom of speech, and causes gross harms to women’s rights. And you decide to post on the feminism and women’s rights board to object to us objecting to such a destructive ideology?

So you’re pro women who agree with you? Not all women?

It's really unkind to suggest someone's child is causing upset to others by their very existence and insist that you know more than the OP about her child. I'm amazed some posters here can't see that or don't care.

And yes, people who say "I'm a woman" should at least be able to say what they actually mean by that.

Are there any differences between a woman and a man? Or are they interchangeable terms, meaning "human adult"?

A lot of the hostility on here arises when people misunderstand what others mean by the terms they use - so some say "woman means female, nothing else" and others say "woman means any person of any sex" but can't specify any further. But because no-one's bothered to say what they mean then everyone talks at cross-purposes.

It means capitulation and agreeing with the previous poster in all circumstances.

I don’t see this attitude as being pro-women. At all. I’m a woman and it certainly isn’t my cause.

Ah! Thank you for explaining this, as we can now see where the misunderstanding has arisen.
Something being "pro-women" doesn't necessarily mean that all women agree with it - after all, could you even give an example of something that would fit that description?

I don’t see this attitude as being pro-women. At all. I’m a woman and it certainly isn’t my cause.

What does being pro-women mean to you?

Lots of lesbians disagree with you. HTH

There have always been women who aren't interested, or actively work against women's rights.

I don’t see this attitude as being pro-women. At all. I’m a woman and it certainly isn’t my cause.

Do you think that's how it works?