One third of domestic abuse victims are male

And it's not 'dangerous rhetoric' to say that men are stronger, bigger, heavier and more likely to seriously injure women than the reverse. It's just factual.

I'm sorry for your experiences. And yes, emotional and coercive abuse is serious and awful. I don't see anyone here dismissing it.

Violent abuse in the context of dv is just about always just one facet of a larger pattern of emotional/coercive abuse. So anyone who has experienced physical dv will almost certainly have experienced it as part of an abusive/coercive relationship dynamic.

'Comparing emotional abuse and violent abuse' in the context of dv doesn't really make sense, because it will be vanishingly rare to have violent abuse without emotional abuse.

A comparison would perhaps be emotional abuse compared to a stranger punching someone in the street, say. But these are apples and oranges and so again the comparison is fairly meaningless.

No one has done anything of the sort. Acknowledging stats does not make the other story behind the stat disappear or diminish. 33% is 33%. It hasn't changed.

Using a stat to center men when women are clearly either affected more in number or intensity is diminishing for women.

A different strategy is required for males. Taking the spotlight or funding away from women is not it.

Let’s stop saying: a woman has been killed by her partner, and instead, every time, say: a man has killed his partner.

Yes! Jackson Katz's TED talk is good about what is lost in agency and accountability when language is used like this.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jackson_katz_violence_against_women_it_s_a_men_s_issue/transcript?language=en

Surely the important statistic in all this, if we are trying to reduce violence, is the sex of the perpetrators, rather than the victims? All this splitting hairs about sex, age, status of victims matters much less than identifying the people who pose a risk of violent attack. And I am certain that these will be overwhelmingly male, regardless of the sex, age, or status of their victims. You can’t make yourself less male, less female or less of a child in order to avoid being a victim of domestic violence, so in a way, that’s less important than naming the people who actually pose the danger. Let’s stop saying: a woman has been killed by her partner, and instead, every time, say: a man has killed his partner. We need to keep focussing on the people whose behaviour needs to change.

I think the whole men are bigger, men do it more severe, women don't beat men etc is really quite a dangerous rhetoric.

I'm not a neutral party in this and I suppose my post comes from my feelings and experience rather than an academic position. I was severely emotionally abused growing up, I didn't even recognise it was abuse until I was an adult, it wasn't until I started talking about it and people were horrified by what I'd been through that I realised how horrific it was. I wasn't beaten so I thought it couldn't possibly be abuse nevermind the severe abuse I've come to realise that it was, you couldn't and still can't see what happened to me but 20 years later I still very much bear the scars of what happened. I don't think I'll ever be 'normal'.

Emotional abuse can be horrific, I attempted suicide, I self harmed, I starved myself, all as a result of the abuse that happened by a woman who never touched me. It was severe, it was horrific and it has had long lasting effects on every aspect of my life. I struggle when I see people compare emotional abuse and violent abuse and come to the conclusion that emotional isn't that bad, that it could have be worse. Emotional abuse could have killed me, sure I inflicted the physical damage on myself but it didn't happen in a vacuum. I suppose I just wish that people would choose their words a little more carefully and be a little less dismissive about the effects that all types of abuse can have.

This.

And some men's definition of domestic violence often includes "nagging." The differences between what most women put up with and what some men complain about are yet another example of masculine privilege.

As @BloodyAdultDC 's post demonstrates.

I was about to post this, so thank you for doing so. Am re-posting purely to amplify it because it should, in my view, end a lot of the arguments.

This is my experience too.

There does need to be different approaches.
For example lockdown saw the use of remote therapy which more men accessed and research shows they prefer it, certainly for first sessions.

Women prefer face to face therapy in general.

I am not saying all women, nor am I saying all men.

But system needs to understand risk and lumping all DA in together simply doesn't allow the system to develop to different requirements

Yes and note also that the 2023 figures seemed to have some issue/failing so that they are not being used as official data/figures.

@LaerealSilverhand the stats I was quoting earlier in the thread are from the Office of National statistics which use crime data which I linked to.

Here we go - a perfect example of men and their supporters twisting the words and twisting the facts to put men centre stage in discussions of abuse and violence. There are people - men, and a large number of women supporters - who just cannot tolerate the idea of the facts about male violence against women being made public, and being used to shape public policy.

No amount of careful phrasing 'Of course women can be abusive/abuse and violence are always wrong/men deserve support too...' will ward off statements like this post by cuckooooooo.

Here in Ireland it reached the stage where any discussion in the media about male violence against women and girls was immediately challenged with 'What about violence against men?' 'Where are the men's refuges?' etc.

To be honest, it sounds very childish, like a child jealous of the attention that a sibling is getting, even if that attention is because the sibling has just fallen and broken their arm, or something equally serious.

And I always wonder why men - who are at least as numerous as women - didn't get their act together years ago to set up these apparently essential men's refuges and men's rape crisis centres, as we women did. On our own, no funding, and often in the face of opprobrium and even violence.
Nope - they complain about women having our own facilities, demand access to them [and not just transwomen - men have been using RCCs in Ireland for decades now] and demand matched public funding.

A well-researched, fact-based campaign, led by well-informed and fair-minded men, to establish the need for services for male victims of violence and abuse - most of which is of course inflicted on them by other males, but of course including men who experience abuse from women - would be a welcome alternative to the irrational approach exemplified by cuckooooooo.

The CSEW (BCS) where these stats comes from for England and Wales have used the same methodology since 2015.

My ex would shout from the rooftops that he was being abused by me.

In truth, he felt victimized because I wouldn't bow to his abusive demands - I wanted to have access to our joint account, to be allowed out of the house with a key of my own, to meet a friend or my mum. He perceived that as me asserting financial control over him, that I wanted to be out of the house to meet other men for tawdry sex sessions and my friend and my mum were plotting against him.

Meanwhile I didn't shout about the actual financial abuse (no access to my own money), being locked in the house every day and being cut off from my friends and family.

Too many female victims of abuse do not make official complaints - it takes 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship so if the ratio for actual abuse vs recorded abuse is similar, that suggests a much higher disparity between female and male victims.

I work in the domestic abuse sector and have supported both men and women. I do believe this, but think that domestic abuse perpetrated against women is very different and often much more extreme than domestic abuse against men. Men tend to leave much more easily and very rarely fear that they are going to be murdered. I've worked with very few men who I would class as high risk enough to warrant a refuge place. It doesn't make it OK, however I do think it is 'different'.

Of course not. There is no excuse for domestic violence. It needs to be very clear that there is huge disparity between the sexes, in order to tackle the problem effectively.

That still doesn't excuse domestic violence against men

Another point I can't help thinking of is that if my 6 foot 2, 16 stone ex who enjoyed street fighting had chosen to, he could have very easily killed me.

The reverse was absolutely not true.

Statistically men are bigger, have greater muscle strength, and are capable of doing far more damage.

No-one has said anything of the sort.

As usual domestic violence against men is diminished. Even police don't take it seriously. Even posters on here are excusing it. Oh it's ok as long as women are being attacked less.

I don't think anyone's posted a link yet to Karen Ingala Smith's blog that unpicks this kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/ - basically saying some of the things that have been highlighted on this thread about different levels of violence, women's retaliation being counted, whether or not it's repeated, and the impact that the violence has.

There are those so ashamed that men are "the baddies" that they are desperate to prove that women are "no angels". they'll do everything to refuse to acknowledge that when it comes to violence or abuse there is a clear statistical distinction between male and female patterns of behaviour.

The world does not have only 1 dimension and we are not in a goodie vs baddie Holywood movie.

Yes some women can be perpetrators of abuse. This does not negate that women make up the largest proportion of victims of domestic abuse and violence. Yes men and children can suffer abuse at the hands of women. I personally know a few. This does not negate that men make up the overwhelming proportion of perpetrators of domestic abuse and violence.

Adopting up an equality-based strategy to target a sex based behavioural difference should be questioned.

Thank you - the impression I got from the documentary is that women will go for the psychological/coercive control mode first, whereas men tend to be violent with a side helping of the coercive stuff. Am inferring this is because of the physical power imbalance. Am reading a book on DV (Jane Monkton Smith’s In Control) and interested in gender differences. Am a creative writing/lit PhD student looking at feminist perspectives of Crime fiction (maternal blame, all psychopaths have shit mothers etc) and might explore the way women can be abusive at some point in a future bit of research. My own life experience showed me that my mother was just as capable of physical and mental viciousness, but tended to direct it at her children which, in turn, became a way of manipulating and abusing my step dad (who was a nasty piece of work when riled but mainly directed it at her). Am just at the point where I can read about this stuff as I found/find it quite triggering so struggle to maintain detachment!

Ah it's okay I know what you mean! Only based on my own experience I'd say it's less explosive violence and more calculated and enjoyed if that makes sense when it comes from a woman however I'm not sure which is worse. I think men seem to have explosive fits of rage where they lose it and do real damage, especially when they're a jealous character already ( by lose it I don't mean they can't stop it if they want to but to a certain degree they just give in to their jealousy ) and they genuinely do feel some remorse after because they are basically man children but sometimes women are more spiteful and demeaning, lots of reminding them what people will think if they make anything of their violence and also citing 'reactive' violence more as a way to gaslight the victim so victim may have stayed out at a pub longer than discussed - returns home and receives a beating but its a 'reaction' caused by previous boyfriends treating them badly or something similar that evokes feelings of guilt if the victim doesn't forgive. It's problematic that society still see nothing wrong with a woman hitting a man. Quite often a woman will even admit it to friends friends family, whereas men generally never will but that's not because women don't think it's wrong and men do- its because they know realistically most people won't judge in the same way but they should. All very tricky and not one size fits all unfortunately. Really sad though, children shouldn't have to see their mum hitting their dad anymore than their dad hitting their mum.

Male abusers very often make counter accusations as a defence strategy to silence their victims.