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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How best to answer 'What are your preferred pronouns?' in an intervew

607 replies

NancyDrawed · 23/09/2024 17:19

I have been out of the workforce for a very long time but finally have an in-person interview later this week.

The confirmation email is signed by a name followed by (he/him/his). I need to get a job. But I am trying to get my head around what I would say if I was directly asked what my preferred pronouns are.

On principle I would like to say 'I'm not a follower of that ideology so use whichever you see fit' or something along those lines, but is that likely to mean I have no chance of getting the job?

I am clearly female, so a small part of me would want to say he/him/his just to see the reaction!

It might not even come up at all, but I'd like to be prepared.

OP posts:
SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 18:39

A person accused of rape

You mean men accused of rape. Male-born men. Their sex, not gender, determines that.

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 18:35

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2024 16:57

I am concerned about all defendants being treated equally.

And innocent till found guilty.
But the conundrum is how to do that without being massively, horribly, disrespectful and cruel to victims?

The victims and any witnesses are free to use the descriptions they want. Court officials do not misgender anyone. That is the guidance, and of the two options available, that’s the better one.

A person accused of rape is just as innocent as person accused of any other crime unless they are found guilty.

But yes, it is a conundrum.

I don’t see any point in repeating the same thing again, and I am the wrong person to complain to
about this policy, so I am out of this discussion unless anyone raises a new point.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2024 17:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/09/2024 17:25

The adults who created this made a huge mistake

They did, and some people at the time foresaw this type of situation, and they were told it only referred to a few thousand people of both sexes.

I know and look where we twenty years later

We should reassess and go in another direction. One that is non falsification and better for women and children

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/09/2024 17:25

The adults who created this made a huge mistake

They did, and some people at the time foresaw this type of situation, and they were told it only referred to a few thousand people of both sexes.

Helleofabore · 29/09/2024 17:16

Being male or female is a fundamental fact of life. Somehow, an individual’s personal identity has been prioritised over society’s need to be able to reflect this fundamental fact about someone when it is important to do so.

And for many people, it is important to be able to acknowledge a person’s sex not their preference in their speech and their actions. It is not appropriate to coerce anyone to have to treat someone as being the sex they wish to be perceived as versus the material reality. Some people believe this is ‘kind’, for some people it is not ‘kind’ at all.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2024 17:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/09/2024 17:04

the other option, misgendering every single transgender defendant is worse

It really isn't.

The adults who created this made a huge mistake

There’s too much harm for women and children

MelodyMalone · 29/09/2024 17:11

Forgive me if I do not care about the "misgendering" of a rapist. He can call himself Lexi till the cows come home but he's a man who committed a specifically male crime.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/09/2024 17:07

I think it's really bad to make all
witnesses lie under oath. Perhaps it's easier to understand it in the case of "Lexi", but it's expecting too much. People should be able to speak freely about what they experience when giving evidence.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/09/2024 17:04

the other option, misgendering every single transgender defendant is worse

It really isn't.

Helleofabore · 29/09/2024 17:01

There is now a massive disconnect where society can now declare that sometimes we, as a population, can believe material reality and sometimes we ‘shouldn’t’. The entire premise of someone changing sex has been dealt a blow in ways that it will never claw back support from.

The word ‘cis’ has been shown to be completely meaningless to describe female people as well. It never was fit for purpose.

Piece by piece the basis of the belief that people are the identity they claim is being eroded. Since rapists are not the sex they claim when they claim to be the opposite to what their body is formed as, and sportspeople, and rape crisis centre staff, why do we need to continue with affirming any person’s gender identity?

If a rapist is not the sex they claim when they claim to be the opposite sex to their body’s reality, then who is?

SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 16:59

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2024 16:57

I am concerned about all defendants being treated equally.

And innocent till found guilty.
But the conundrum is how to do that without being massively, horribly, disrespectful and cruel to victims?

Perhaps he + name of choice (for males), she + name of choice (for females)?

nutmeg7 · 29/09/2024 16:58

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:30

So can a transgender or non-binary teacher. Yours deeply held pseudo-religious protected belief makes no difference to that.

Being gay or transgender isn’t political.

If I had a teacher was a Reverend, I’d be happy to address her as such without following the religion.

What “pseudo-religious protected belief” are you talking about?

EasternStandard · 29/09/2024 16:57

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:32

i don’t agree with your framing of this, and the other option, misgendering every single transgender defendant is worse. Hard cases make bad law.

And gender ideology as a whole leads to bad outcomes for women and children

As a male you can’t see it and despite reading many posts from women on these boards you remain incredibly closed to hearing experiences

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2024 16:57

I am concerned about all defendants being treated equally.

And innocent till found guilty.
But the conundrum is how to do that without being massively, horribly, disrespectful and cruel to victims?

tryingagaintoday · 29/09/2024 16:56

They aren't going to ask you that in an interview, unless you are applying for a job with some LGBT type organisation. Most likely they have done the Equality training on LGBT at their work that told them put their pronouns in their signature so they did.

None of the pronoun people in my public sector org have ever asked me my pronouns.

SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 16:54

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:51

I am concerned about all defendants being treated equally.

And that is done by referring to them correctly to ensure that the victims are not subjected to further trauma, that crime statistics are not skewed, and that and media reporting is accurate. Men committing crimes = he, women committing crimes = she.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 29/09/2024 16:52

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:51

I am concerned about all defendants being treated equally.

But obviously not at all concerned about the female victims of rape.

Helleofabore · 29/09/2024 16:52

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2024 16:46

I can't see any justification for coercing the speech of witnesses in any trial - they've solemnly promised to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Force me to mis-sex someone, my choice is contempt of court, perjury, or linguistic gymnastics. The latter may be possible in an MN post but are likely to impair the quality of verbal evidence.

This is the point.

If a person is prepared to use language to reflect someone philosophical belief that does not reflect material reality, then how can the judge or jury trust anything they say without wondering if it is obscuring the material fact.

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:51

OchonAgusOchonOh · 29/09/2024 16:41

Despite the fact that multiple defendents have stated that the use of non-sex based pronouns exacerbated their trauma, you are more concerned about hurting the feelings of the perpetrators? That says a lot.

I am concerned about all defendants being treated equally.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/09/2024 16:46

I can't see any justification for coercing the speech of witnesses in any trial - they've solemnly promised to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Force me to mis-sex someone, my choice is contempt of court, perjury, or linguistic gymnastics. The latter may be possible in an MN post but are likely to impair the quality of verbal evidence.

HipTightOnions · 29/09/2024 16:43

So can a transgender or non-binary teacher.

How? "You're not allowed to call me Sir/Mr because I'm not a man?" That's not true though, is it?

Helleofabore · 29/09/2024 16:42

MelodyMalone · 29/09/2024 16:34

They can be referred to by their preferred pronouns in non-sexual cases. Where a sexual assault has taken place, the biological sex of the offender is relevant, which it probably isn't in a case of shoplifting, for instance.

Why do we even need to do this?

It is a philosophical belief. Transgender people and academics supporting gender identity have been saying this out loud for a while now. This is all about personal identity. Why does any other person need to comply with a persons belief about themselves?

OchonAgusOchonOh · 29/09/2024 16:41

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:32

i don’t agree with your framing of this, and the other option, misgendering every single transgender defendant is worse. Hard cases make bad law.

Despite the fact that multiple defendents have stated that the use of non-sex based pronouns exacerbated their trauma, you are more concerned about hurting the feelings of the perpetrators? That says a lot.

SirChenjins · 29/09/2024 16:37

MelodyMalone · 29/09/2024 16:34

They can be referred to by their preferred pronouns in non-sexual cases. Where a sexual assault has taken place, the biological sex of the offender is relevant, which it probably isn't in a case of shoplifting, for instance.

Unless you’re happy for the statistics (as they currently stand) to be inaccurately recorded with the result the crimes by women (actual ones) show an overall increase as a result of the men committing them.

MelodyMalone · 29/09/2024 16:34

DadJoke · 29/09/2024 16:32

i don’t agree with your framing of this, and the other option, misgendering every single transgender defendant is worse. Hard cases make bad law.

They can be referred to by their preferred pronouns in non-sexual cases. Where a sexual assault has taken place, the biological sex of the offender is relevant, which it probably isn't in a case of shoplifting, for instance.