Feel sad that more people in the media don’t speak up

Sorry, what is?

That you need two X chromosomes, or a vagina, to be a woman is a viewpoint, not a fact. And as you are very well aware, it’s a viewpoint that many people disagree with you on.

@ElleWoods15 it’s biological fact not a view.

I don’t know what makes you say that. I’m perfectly aware there are different viewpoints and am not the one swearing off certain celebs because they don’t share mine….

I think that a lot of these people do think that people really change their sex. Or maybe better to say, are not the sex they appear.

There are a minority of people who have some sort of language based queer theory bollocks ideas, and some of them I suspect have confused themselves to the point they will believe anything potentially.

But there is a large group, and I think this is very very common in places like Canada, who really believe this is a scientific thing. I would put Margaret Atwood into that group. They think that in some real way the brain or mind of a trans person doesn't match the body. Many believe something like the hormone wash theory.

It's vague, but it's worth remembering that a lot of what most people understand about science is quite vague. And they are used to applying that to social justice questions. They've been told for years, for example, that it is objectively understood that homosexuality is innate and unchangeable and that this is the basis for many gay rights questions - in reality the scientific evidence of that is very scant indeed, it's more at the level of reasonable opinion.

Very few people will be able to talk in a knowledgeable way about genetics, black holes, or cell division. So they aren't all that put out that they can't explain gender and sex.

⬆️

Oops. Edit fail.

This bit...

Similarly boys grow up with expectations to be adventurous, providers, emotionally strong etc.

Was meant to be after "..... because you're a girl".

I added it as an afterthought.... in the wrong place 🤦‍♀️

Unfortunately I think some older female celebrities are at a time and position in life whereby they believe that it is very unlikely to affect them personally. They are established, successful and, in many cases, wealthy enough to use private facilities. I would put Mary Beard in that category too.

Exactly.

Sex and gender identity are different. We get told this all the time.

Yes, sex is biology. It's fact. We advance our knowledge through science, for example the invention of the pill and IVF, or more recently the greater depth of understanding about DSDs. Many of us went on a crash course on social media via experts like Emma Hilton on DSDs during the boxing debacle at the Olympics. The key point here is that the facts don't change, it's just that our knowledge advances where previously it was more primitive. We go from hypotheses to confirmed, empirical facts as this happens.

Gender identity on the other hand is a belief. The belief that we all have an inner essence of maleness, femaleness or neither (and any blend thereof).

The bit where it becomes a lie is to let a child, or a vulnerable adult, believe that they can change sex or that they don't have a sex at all. Everyone has a sex. Nobody can change theirs. But what they can do is change their body to match their perceived belief that their gendered essence is in a physical body that doesn't match it. To all of us non-believers, this doesn't make sense... but live and let live, right? Yes, only if the person understands what they are doing to themselves and that others don't share their belief (so transwomen can't go demanding access to women's sports and spaces, for example). Similarly boys grow up with expectations to be adventurous, providers, emotionally strong etc.

Unfortunately the preachers of the belief use deliberately conflating language, which will confuse children and vulnerable adults e.g. "sex assigned at birth" to mean "gender identity assigned at birth"... which actually means that from the moment you're born you'll inherit a "bunch of expectations and limitations that you'll wear dresses, be gentle, take charge of all the childcare, prefer netball over football etc. because you're a girl".

Sex and gender identity are different. Sex is a fact. Gender identity is a belief which helps believers to explain why they feel how they do in relation to the expectations and limitations that are placed upon them. Some believers will find that the only way they can make sense of it is to identify as the opposite sex/gender.

Goodness @ElleWoods15 you seem unable to accept a different view from your own.

The views here don't show bigotry. Genderism is a faith and questioning those who genuinely believe people can change sex is equivalent to an atheist who takes issue with Creationism or with a belief that the world was created in 7 days a few thousand years ago.
I have no issue with people having faith but I do have an issue with people pretending that their faith is scientifically accurate.
Believe what you like, but genderism shouldn't be treated as fact any more than Creationism is. Rather less actually because I'm not sure Creationism affects the lives and rights of half the population.

Ah like those ppl who hold the “different view” that the earth is flat

People are entitled to hold different views and I’m entitled to point out they are utter nonsense

I didn’t know this about Marian Keyes, that’s so disappointing. She’s such an intelligent woman and such a strong voice on so many women’s issues - what a shame she’s married to someone like that. Would definitely put me off reading her again.

Same with Atwood. Just can’t see see her or read her in the same way after seeing her views on this - surely if anyone should get it, it’s her!

No. But I think your basic failure to comprehend the fact that people hold different views is.

With respect as it is literally impossible to change sex anyone telling ppl that they can, or agreeing it can be done, is lying

people can no more change sex than they grow wings and take flight

@ElleWoods15 you think biology is bigoted??

All the stunning and brave nonsense is beyond annoying too.

Sorry, is the basic response of those with GC views to anyone who doesn’t hold the same viewpoint ‘my mind can’t comprehend your views therefore you must be lying’?

With respect, that’s just bigotry.

Absolutely this.

no one really believes it.

I don't have an issue with celebrities, and mainly here I mean performers, who choose not to be political or wade into controversies. There are many reasons someone might not want their political opinions to be in the public eye, and I don't see why being an actor means they ought to be.

I have some sympathy for people like Margaret Atwood. Maybe in part because I've never seen her as so prophetic or been a fan of most of her work, but mainly because I think she is someone who is very much in a bubble and probably not well placed to pierce that bubble - this is a generation that really thinks the CBC is the be all and end all - I imagine she'd be truly shocked to discover how bad and manipulative their journalism is on many issues. But who is going to tell her?

I think the people that annoy me are the ones who make a show of being so counter-cultural and brave, and yet seem to invariably hold, without much thought, to the political beliefs of liberal professional progressives. Surely if they really were so attached to questioning the narrative, and so inclined to speak truth to power, they'd dissent on at least some elements?

Oh, I love you for saying this about P.D. James. I think she is really under-rated as a writer because so many see her as a genre-fiction writer.

This! No one literally no one other than a handful of very hardline TRA believes it’s either possible to change sex or have no sex at all. No one.

what we have is an awful lot of ppl prepared to lie about it - some out of fear, some because they think it’s no biggie, some to maintain a relationship with those they live, some to keep getting work or stay on a job

I have no problem with people holding different views.

The lies are denying basic biology.

He’s not “lying to his child”. He holds a different view to you. I do not get how that is so hard to understand.

I'm interested in reading it, but my reading material this weekend - and I expect it to be pretty grim - is the freshly published The Party Is Always Right by Aidan Beatty. It's the story of the Workers Revolutionary Party and its late leader Gerry Healy.

Nobody much remembers the WRP now, but imagine if you will a fanatical political cult, led by a serial rapist, prone to violence against its opponents and dissenting members, and bankrolled by Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein. Now consider that in the 1970s and early 80s a large part of the UK's acting profession were members of the WRP.

I long ago stopped believing that left wing activists should be assumed to be nice idealistic people, and I wish society would stop assuming that actors have got anything useful to say about the state of society.

I suppose I can't blame, let's take a random example, Bill Bailey for having joined the WRP as a teenager. Teenagers do stupid things. But it does make me do a double take when Bill decides to lecture us from on high.

Yes, writers of non-fiction and journalists etc I get, as it's their job to cover the reality of current affairs, science, medicine, etc. Someone like Graham Norton, who I believe kind of downplayed the whole "cancel culture" thing then promptly experienced it himself probably shows the broadcasters etc can't really win.
I feel the smart ones are the ones who say nothing. One could presume that, for example, Victoria Beckham is 100% aware of the two sexes, being a mother of 4 kids, 3 boys and 1 girl, but I don't have any need for her to say anything about it. The ones that DO say something about it are generally involved in some way, or responding to a situation that require them to toe the line publicly. JKR and Ricky Gervais have "fuck you" money. The others with "fuck you" money that keep quiet, I kind of presume they're simply not interested, that it doesn't affect them, or that they're well aware of the abuse RG and JKR get and wish to protect their kids from that.

He is lying to his child but I almost see why he now feels unable to change his view.. However, his language and behaviour towards others is inexcusable.
But yes his choice and I and others will
vote with our feet and money.