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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Not sure if I have said something wrong or not

57 replies

Motnight · 17/09/2024 15:59

It was a team away day in person last week. We all had to stand up and introduce ourselves. I was about the 10th person to. The person before me stated their preferred pronouns.

I deliberately didn't state my pronouns. My director then interjected and said "you've forgotten your pronouns". I replied that whilst I totally respected other people's preferences regarding pronouns I felt no need to state mine. I then passed the microphone onto the next person. She stated her pronouns, but about half of the rest of the delegates didn't.

I came into work yesterday and my director (a man) came up to me said hi and then said that I was obviously a strong character who didn't mind making her thoughts known. I just smiled and nodded and he wandered off. A fellow female colleague and I today have been chatting about the away day and she mentioned that she was really uncomfortable with the overt trans phobia during the day. I didn't respond to that (I didn't witness any trans phobia at all) but am wondering if the comment was aimed at me, or if I am being too sensitive.

I have obviously got people's attention by what I said. I don't regret it, but I do wonder if I am going to be given some sort of label.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fenlandia · 18/09/2024 09:25

You did the right thing OP. No-one should be forced to disclose sensitive personal information in public, whether they believe they have a gender identity or not.

Windywuss · 18/09/2024 07:58

Motnight · 18/09/2024 07:12

Thank you everyone who has replied to my post. I am a strong (over!) middle aged woman and yet I felt nervous about politely refusing to play the pronouns game. 10 years ago I would have laughed at myself.

I will keep notes of the 2 comments that I have received so far just in case things escalate. My hope is that they won't.

It's shit isn't it? Stong, senior academic women having to watch what we say in case we offend confused teeneagers and millennial staff who seem to be unable to process complex issues that have nuanced human perspectives (and yet... they're academics FFS).

I hate how black and white thinking has become. This world seems to be all about being seen to say the right thing, without even engaging with any deeper thought. Brenee Brown has spoken about this quite eloquently. The 'if you're not for us then you're against us' way of operating.

JustSpeculation · 18/09/2024 07:36

Many universities have upgraded their online security over the past year. It's been a nightmare for users who BYOD in our establishment. "It's not that difficult" is not as automatically true as it used to be.

HarrietJonesFlydaleNorth · 18/09/2024 07:25

Another tactic to have up your sleeve if things get nasty or uncomfortable on a personal level, is to explain quietly that you don't feel comfortable sharing your pronouns yet as you are trying to understand how you feel about them, and it can be hard when being put under unwanted scrutiny. That often shuts people up.

Motnight · 18/09/2024 07:12

Thank you everyone who has replied to my post. I am a strong (over!) middle aged woman and yet I felt nervous about politely refusing to play the pronouns game. 10 years ago I would have laughed at myself.

I will keep notes of the 2 comments that I have received so far just in case things escalate. My hope is that they won't.

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 17/09/2024 23:26

MelodyMalone · 17/09/2024 23:07

The link works ok for me, for some reason.

It's possible I'm being over-cautious. But if it's throwing people out at the identity level ("you've not got a UoR identity"), that means that it's checking credentials. In other words it's reading someone's email address and making a choice. Possibly that's all it's doing or possibly it's storing the email address.

notimetodoit · 17/09/2024 23:22

That sounds perfect to me, Motnight, how you dealt with it. So you were you, two people tried to half start something with you, and you didn't give them the pleasure. Because they've got nowhere to go with their comment so don't help them on their way by responding! Perfect :) In any other decade in history (and hopefully the future) you would not be wondering about this!

MelodyMalone · 17/09/2024 23:07

The link works ok for me, for some reason.

BonfireLady · 17/09/2024 22:49

HaddyAbrams · 17/09/2024 17:16

I get this message

Based on this, I would suggest nobody tries to access this link.
The server that is receiving the request (from your account) will have a record of the requests (of your account).
Perhaps it's perfectly legitimate. Equally, perhaps not.

Windywuss · 17/09/2024 18:26

Well I've clearly pissed off my colleague today taking similar stance. We are doing our welcome week for students. We have a lot of trans and nb students again this year. We don't have a system that stores pronouns online so senior staff tend to just have to find out and circulate to teaching teams.

This can be tricky but I sent a nice and appreciated email to all students this week dealing with it and giving reassurance.

My teammate commented that it needs to be available online. And I said well that's ok, as long as it's an optional field because not everyone wants to do this and I wouldn't either. He was really huffy. Clearly I have wrongthink. Hmm

onceandneveragain · 17/09/2024 18:14

RaspberryParade · 17/09/2024 16:39

I dont understand why you cant access it. As I said to the previous person email Jo Phoenix her contact is easily found- plus there is a thread here about it.

Please just put the link in your address bar - its not that complicated

Edited

bit rude

You were the one who said "please share this widely" and then when people try to actually access it in order to do so, they get condescending remarks. I'm sure anyone who has managed to access mumsnet understands how to copy and paste a web address into their browser bar and would have tried that. Besides which it wouldn't have made any difference whether you direct clicked or c&p - the link wasn't broken, access is clearly restricted.

I got the same message as @HaddyAbrams

NPET · 17/09/2024 17:46

I'd support you completely. I attended a "workday" at college and was asked my pronouns.
My comment "I think it's obvious" was apparently not acceptable. I was wearing a skirt and being swooned over by men (and boys)* but I still had to stand up and tell them that I didn't have a p!
*Sorry if I sound "up myself" as they say, but they were doing this.

HaddyAbrams · 17/09/2024 17:16

I get this message

Not sure if I have said something wrong or not
HaddyAbrams · 17/09/2024 17:13

I can't access that document either. I signed in with my Microsoft account (which is what it asked for) and then wouldn't let me see it.

HoppityBun · 17/09/2024 17:01

Limth · 17/09/2024 16:46

When clicking on the link didn't work, I copied and pasted the link because, as you very kindly pointed out, it's not that hard.

Both times, I got this.

Same

RachelshouldhavegonetoParis · 17/09/2024 16:50

Limth · 17/09/2024 16:46

When clicking on the link didn't work, I copied and pasted the link because, as you very kindly pointed out, it's not that hard.

Both times, I got this.

Same

Limth · 17/09/2024 16:46

When clicking on the link didn't work, I copied and pasted the link because, as you very kindly pointed out, it's not that hard.

Both times, I got this.

Not sure if I have said something wrong or not
SeptemberIRememberALoveOnceNewHasNowGrownOld · 17/09/2024 16:45

RachelshouldhavegonetoParis · 17/09/2024 16:40

@RaspberryParade I clicked on the link and got this sign-in screen.

That’s the first screen I got, but mine also offered me my work account. When I clicked on that it took me to the screenshot I posted.

RaspberryParade · 17/09/2024 16:44

RachelshouldhavegonetoParis · 17/09/2024 16:40

@RaspberryParade I clicked on the link and got this sign-in screen.

Please read the thread - copy and paste into your address bar
if its not working!
OR contact Jo Phoenix.
Its not that hard

RaspberryParade · 17/09/2024 16:43

@Limth
Copy and paste it into your address bar...

RachelshouldhavegonetoParis · 17/09/2024 16:40

@RaspberryParade I clicked on the link and got this sign-in screen.

Not sure if I have said something wrong or not
RaspberryParade · 17/09/2024 16:39

SeptemberIRememberALoveOnceNewHasNowGrownOld · 17/09/2024 16:37

I’m not able to access it via that link.

Are you able to provide another way to read it, @RaspberryParade ?

(I am signed on on my device with my work account, but I doubt my employer has blocked it. I think I need a U of Reading account)

Sorry, crossposted while I was editing my screenshots.

Edited

I dont understand why you cant access it. As I said to the previous person email Jo Phoenix her contact is easily found- plus there is a thread here about it.

Please just put the link in your address bar - its not that complicated

SeptemberIRememberALoveOnceNewHasNowGrownOld · 17/09/2024 16:37

I’m not able to access it via that link.

Are you able to provide another way to read it, @RaspberryParade ?

(I am signed on on my device with my work account, but I doubt my employer has blocked it. I think I need a U of Reading account)

Sorry, crossposted while I was editing my screenshots.

Not sure if I have said something wrong or not
RaspberryParade · 17/09/2024 16:37

Limth · 17/09/2024 16:34

You need to sign in to access that document. Is there any way to access it for non-Reading people?

No, you dont.

I havent had to so why should anyone else.
If youre really having issues write to Jo Phoenix her email is widely available.

Limth · 17/09/2024 16:34

RaspberryParade · 17/09/2024 16:32

Remember, you werent the only one.Their passive aggressive tactics are repellent.
You could always say politely but pointedly, "is that directed specifically at me?" or "I didnt see any transphobia, but remember lots of people dont believe in this belief system as is their human right'

stressing its a belief system and your right not to partcipate.

Id also be talking to the others who didnt comply, because they will try and isolate you as if you are the only one.

Remember Forstater and read Jo Phoenixs summary she has just put out
"Don’t Get Caught Out
A Summary of Gender Critical Belief
Discrimination Employment
Tribunal Judgments"
Please share this widely.
https://centaur.reading.ac.uk/118472/2/Dont%20Get%20Caught%20Out%20final.pdf

Edited

You need to sign in to access that document. Is there any way to access it for non-Reading people?

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