I could weep with relief. Scotland's gender medicine experts BACK the Cass review.

There is no contradiction between McHugh’s characterisation of gender dysphoria as part of a group of delusory mind–body disorders and the conception of it as a social contagion among teenaged girls. The latter is well known in relation to anorexia nervosa, but what is specific to the contemporary phenomenon is that teenagers have been so thoroughly inducted into transgender ideology in schools and online and imbued with the fallacy of sex being on a spectrum and mutable. Gender dysphoria/incongruence is part of a cultural narrative that confers attention and endorsement.

Amen to that.

I've not heard of Jenny Cunningham but I wonder how much she was able to say and do whilst working for the health service in Scotland.

Or whether it is only now she is no longer part of it she feels able to speak out.

Rather than start a new thread I am adding this link here on the basis that the author was a community paediatrician in Glasgow for over 30 years, with expertise in paediatric neurodisability and autism, until retiring in 2016. Jenny is on the board of the Scottish Union for Education (SUE), which campaigns against indoctrination in Scottish schools, and is the author of SUE’s pamphlet, Transgender ideology in Scottish schools: What’s wrong with government guidance?

Dr Jenny Cunningham, a retired paediatrician, explains why the Cass Review has been invaluable – but not without some weaknesses.
https://www.academyofideas.uk/p/two-cheers-for-the-cass-review-but

(hope it being part of Battle of Ideas wont be a distraction!)

Yes. And on the disclaimer theme, I'm not an ethicist- (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!) but I think what you're talking about is something around utilitarianism vs deontology?
Is this what the medical ethicists will have to consider? (Any on here?)

Also. If part of the trial is still to see which children would experience benefit over harm, wouldn't the issues around why almost all children progress to cross sex hormones still be there? (All the obvious, frequently discussed reasons why delayed puberty is more likely to entrench a cross sex identity/cease puberty which is its own resolution for most)

And, as pp noted above- how could the trial differentiate between the benefits of psychological therapy inputs and blockers (as was also flagged re the Dutch protocol) if both are happening simultaneously?

So many questions!

And following them through does maybe lead back to your speculative point Mrs O.

Perhaps things have gone so far, and are so entrenched, that his presents itself to the medical community/goverment as the only and imperfect way forward.

I'm not a medic but I fail to see how any trial of PBs can happen? How will medics be able to explain to a teenager the potential for future infertility, anorgasmia, restricted brain development, osteoporosis and other negative impacts on the body? How can a child realistically consent to their body being harmed like this?

Or maybe that's what putting this into child healthcare involves? Getting the trans extremists away from having any further influence on medicine and restoring ethical medical treatment?

Yes Mrs O. It's a very clear presentation, and very relevent to look at again re discussions about the proposed clinical trials, I think. I just can't see how the same issues won't be inherent?

Thanks for this @DameMaud

Listening to the calm and measured words from Michael as he discusses the use of these dangerous drugs on children's bodies is a bit jarring. Numerous damning points - including the experimental nature of these dangerous medicines that medics have used on many vulnerable children. 😡

Useful presentation from Michael Biggs. Covers the criteria for the protocol at about 18 mins.

The BMA is just a trade union. They did not put this policy out for members to vote on, and it was just decided on by a small number of people. There are moves afoot to contest this decision.

Times piece is decent:

Asked about when children wanting to switch gender in Scotland would be able to join NHS England’s research trial of puberty blocking medicines, MacLeod said it could be next year. She agreed with MSPs that young people who were hoping to start taking puberty suppressing drugs or sex hormones such as testosterone, had struggled with the block on issuing new prescriptions.

archived version: https://archive.is/x5a5z

I share the concerns about the trial protocol. They need to publish this and the outcomes for transparency. It's scheduled for publication fairly soon. I've no insight into the ethics discussion and when any approval of that is due.

I've seen clinicians express the hope that they'll be able to put most of their patients through for the trial. We need clarity as to the participant numbers, inclusion and exclusion criteria, primary outcomes, and whether they will be managed locally.

Yes. I thought (might be wrong, need to look up) that during the original Dutch protocol trials, the children were also receiving psychological support- which someone had pointed out as another difference to the current cohorts (alongside being in stable family relationships/no comorbidities).

Thanks for that info Rethinking.

I wonder why they trial will involve both blockers and psychosocial support - isn’t the trial trying to determine which of these methods is most effective? Would giving both treatments to all the children involved make for unclear results and an inability to attribute positives/negatives to a particular intervention?

There is also this article in the Times today:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/38067049-a3a0-47b2-995c-710ed5ed6dac?shareToken=16d77147b098b106a088f98973261280

They do make the point that the BMA is a 'staff-side organisation', not an organisation of clinicians/doctors. The BMA should not be getting involved.

Tracy Gillies is good. A few years ago she dealt with concerned GPs who were being pressured by GenderGP to undertake shared care.

“really very difficult to articulate” why any clinician would now prescribe drugs to suppress puberty to treat gender issues, after a lack of reliable evidence for safety or effectiveness was <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/qgb6x/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/10/under-25s-trans-care-must-be-slower-says-cass-report/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">highlighted by the Cass Review is a giant heads-up to prescribers that they can expect to be having some very intense discussions with their indemnity orgs if they continue prescribing and subsequently get sued or put before a professional conduct committee.

Agreed.
Presumably the revelations about the toxic influence that Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, Stonewall and numerous other trans lobbyists have had on child healthcare has gone some way to wake up medics. The realisation that trans activists were able to persuade / bully the NHS to abandon evidence based medical treatment for mentally vulnerable children will have been shocking for ethical medics and they're now scrambling to reverse ferret / finally speak out.

And this in the Times from a couple of days ago

https://archive.ph/skFhg paywall bypass

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/gender-clinic-referrals-surge-before-policy-change-deadline-nk56t5w2r

I'm supposed to be respectful, so I'll stop here.

I just noticed this article in the Telegraph, I hope this thread is an okay place to leave it

https://archive.ph/qgb6x bypass paywall

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/17/puberty-blockers-transgender-children-nhs-scotland/

It seems to me the Doctors outsourced their thinking to the rainbow brigade with no medical training but lots of belief. I wonder how many are now anxiously hoping they can outsource any malign results and the resulting comeback. I hope they all are, I hope it keeps them awake at night and makes everything taste of ashes.

A lot may depend on

• whether the BMA persists with the Task & Finish group to critique Cass (see good piece in Lancet)
• activity of NHS England's CYP Gender Dysphoria Research Oversight Board and the upcoming trial.

www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/cyp-gender-dysphoria-research-oversight-board

Yes. Using 'gender questioning' rather than 'trans' is a fundamental shift.

Such welcome news but I hope they all reflect on the shit show of terrible decisions they’ve made over several years. They should be ashamed of themselves.

@@GargoylesofBeelzebub Ok, Im half asleep