Gisele Pelicot, utterly floored by this

What the protestors don’t seem to grasp is that it’s precisely because these men understood the importance of consent that it carried such erotic appeal to proceed without it. The lack of consent is the point. And it’s not patriarchy that’s to blame, but porn-ography. It’s porn which leads a human down into the sludgy gutters of his own psyche – and if the feminists of France really wanted to stand with Gisèle, they’d educate their sons to abstain. Not just from the obviously illegal stuff, but from all of it.

‘Most male sexuality is designed by evolution to be an unscratchable itch; a desperate, unsatisfiable urge. It is like hunger: just as you aren’t meant to wake up one day and say, “Oh, I’ve had 6,000 meals, I think I’ll stop eating now”, so men aren’t meant to wake up one day and think, “Oh, I’ve ogled 500 girls, I think I’ll stop staring at them now.” A further problem with this is that when a man starts to explore his more deviant sexual fantasies, he can find himself in an addictive spiral, pursuing ever stranger forms of sex.’

As the police were rounding up Gisèle Pelicot’s abusers last year, a report was published in France which revealed that as much as 90 per cent of online porn featured violence towards women. ‘Women… are humiliated, objectified, dehumanised, assaulted, tortured, subjected to treatment that is contrary to both human dignity and French law… the women are real and the sexual acts are real and the violence is real. The suffering is often perfectly visible and at the same time eroticised.’ And it was also reported that more than half of 12-year-old boys in France view porn every month. So, yes, educate your sons.

Some paragraphs from a longer article at https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/pornography-and-the-truth-about-the-pelicot-case/

Also at Pornography and the truth about the Pelicot case | The Spectator (archive.ph)

... the 'all men are rapists' and thinking it might actually be true. I think it might be more 'all men are capable of rape'

The original saying was, and should still be:

All men are potential rapists

It was intended to make men think (you'll be lucky) that because of the "potential" they should be very aware that it was about them taking a decision.

Why do they have to file their own complaints with their own lawyers? . Why does the justice system not take the evidence they have and bring their own charges. It is clear that the justice system does not protect women, why should it be down to women to bring men to justice?

It is alarming. I vaguely remember reading an article a long time ago by a British journalist (forget the name) who was with the Red army as it over ran Germany. He was thinking back about what he witnessed and the 'all men are rapists' and thinking it might actually be true. I think it might be more 'all men are capable of rape' and not just because all men have a penis. I sometimes suspect very few men given the wrong set of circumstances would be incapable of rape. Although, for the majority of men those circumstances would be vanishingly unlikely to come about.

The men who raped Gisele were self selected, they were all using a dodgy website so perhaps not representative of a truly random selection of men. That should give a little comfort, not much but a little.

There was a study that asked men: 'If you knew for certain there would be no consequences, would you...?'

One in six said yes to rape. One in three said yes to something that was clearly rape but didn't use the word (from memory I think the question was something like 'use force to have sex with a woman even if she didn’t want to'.).

1 in 3.

I wonder about the different percentages guided by the current circumstances (ETA: I mean specific and situational, not social/state of the world) and any ready reckoning as to whether or not there's a good chance they would never be found out or if it's unlikely there could be any consequences.

I feel so unsettled. My own cognitive dissonance allows me to move through the world and function but this case has left me shaken. It's turned such a stark light on realities that are a huge cognitive and emotional burden.

Those poor children, in hospital needing surgery so probably already in pain and frightened!

Testimony of a young woman operated on as a child by Joël Le Scouarnec

While the prosecutor of the Republic of La Rochelle revealed that 184 complaints for assaults and rapes of minors had been filed against the surgeon of Jonzac, Joël Le Scouarnec, meeting with Amélie LEVEQUE who remembered to have been assaulted at the age of 9, just before an operation for appendicitis. According to her lawyer, the young girl’s name was found among the 200 cited in the doctor’s notebooks.

Video in French - I'm quite glad that I don't understand French!
https://mediaclip.ina.fr/en/i20336187-testimony-of-a-young-woman-operated-on-as-a-child-by-joel-le-scouarnec.html

'Care' or 'think', I suspect.

Can you fill in the missing word please, menopause has shattered my brain and I seemingly cannot guess it today.

I'd say no one wants us to know the real number.
Even if it's as low as 20%, the other 80% have a vested interest in keeping us down. Why dont the 80% speak out?
My reckoning with my vast experience (sarcasm for the unknowing) is 50%.

And I think too many of them actually so little about that that they are happy to close their eyes on the behaviour of those 20%.

You just have to look at the reaction of men about those trials (and others). So many don’t report, ignore, minimise or even support when they see something ‘not quite right’

The former surgeon was charged with 4 rapes, 4 years ago and sentenced to 15 years. There has been an on-going investigation into the remaining 300 cases and he is being recalled to court to face those charges.

I assume roughly 20% of men are dangerous. A very very very rough estimate, but the kind of thing it's very hard to find reliable data on.

Trial was 4 years ago though there was something about him from a few days ago but in French. He was apparently given 15 years.

But yes, we can still be shocked by the coldness and callousness of so called ‘ordinary’ men who don’t even hate us, but rather think of females as something other than human only here to be used.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51883495

Dominique Pelicot has been linked to at least eight other unsolved crimes.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/dominique-pelicot-rape-trial-husband-linked-to-eight-more-crimes-gbdcjjj7p

https://archive.ph/3sWXc

They are all «normal» men.
This behaviour is sadly not that unusual.

Only five walked away but I bet many more knew and just carried on regardless . I don't buy this " I thought she was going along with it "nonsense .

one of the rebuttals to womens (reasonable) fear of SA is "but it's only a few men, a small minority"

I'm beginning to wonder if that's actually true, I suspect it's a sizeable minority, not small at all, maybe we can apply the 80/20 rule here? maybe it's 20? I don't know....

but then the bigger issue here is that even if it IS a small number of men, through their actions they can affect HUNDREDS of women and children as this case shows

so it doesn't need to be a minority for them to have an outside and massive impact on us ffs

That's the fear isn't it, that they actually ARE just "ordinary" men. If they are ordinary, women have even more to worry about than they think they do and that's quite enough already.

I've just looked up the surgeon, Joël Le Scouarnec, he raped his nieces, one of his victims was 4 years old! All meticulously documented. Ffs. Retirement didn't stop him.

Why do women fear and distrust men?

There are no words.

WTF is going in in France atm
An (ex) surgeon will go in trial next after raping or sexually assaulting more than 300 (!!!) patients. A lot if them when they were unconscious. And guess what he was taking photos and videos too.
The average age of the patients was … 11yo

I dint even know how I’m feeling about it now.

No he isn’t a judge anymore.

He is still living with his wife and daughter though….

No idea how the daughter has managed. The impact on her must have been horrendous.

please tell me he is no longer a judge

I remember another thread about a woman in France who had written a book about her family. Fairly affluent, part of a circle of arty, political influence.

Her experience was that it was not uncommon for duaghters to be offered as sexual "presents" to men in that circle.

ie child sexual exploitation.