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Surely Mridul Wadhwa has to go now? Report into ERCC out.

736 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 12/09/2024 12:12

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13842189/Edinburgh-Crisis-Centre-designed-protect-women-suffered-sexual-violence-condemned-failing-damning-report.html

Pretty scathing. Wadhwa cannot stay surely?

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2024 09:38

Another gem, where the other guy realises he hasn't trashed JKR enough:

You have a fair point. I guess I'm holding back a bit because it's one of those things where Rowling has to some extent insulated herself: Saying that she's bad for funding a rape crisis centre looks bad, but she also makes it clear this is for very bad reasons

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2024 09:35

And this is the log and Talk discussion for Beira's Place, which the TRAs are all over:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beira%27s_Place&action=history

A sample from the discussion Confused

"FWIW I don't think that's anywhere near "maximally other side" or that it's going too far at all. I don't even think YFNS's version is maximally anti-Rowling (and support something like it). Maximally anti-Rowling would be something like:
“Beira's Place is a transphobic organization founded and exclusively funded by well-known TERF J.K. Rowling. It falsely describes itself as a "woman only service" but does not hire or provide services to transgender women. While it was allegedly founded to support survivors of sexual violence, Rowling has admitted it was in fact founded out of spite against remarks critical of transphobia by Edinburgh Rape Crisis CEO Mridul Wadhwa.”
That's the actual other end of the scale. (And that's only sticking roughly to the facts and a mostly-Wikipedia-compatible tone. Absent those restrictions I could have done even worse.) Comparatively speaking, what you've written as the other end of the scale is extremely tame."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Beira%27s_Place

popeydokey · 14/09/2024 08:59

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2024 02:10

This is Wikipedia, the bolded passage (my bold( has been added today, they weren't exactly quick on the draw and it was this afternoon when it was edited to include MW's departure. This may be because most people didn't have the permissions to edit it after it was locked by genderists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mridul_Wadhwa&action=history

The review found that the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre had not protected women-only spaces, had not put survivors first, and had not followed national service standards. This was due primarily to the service not clarifying the birth sex of every staff member, and requiring survivors to request if they wanted to be seen by a cisgender staff member specifically

Cisgender people are both sexes, no? It just demonstrates that they know a "cisgender" woman is just another name for a woman.

That's wilfully incorrect, as usual.
As women have been saying for literally years - no-one cares if the person identifies as trans, "cis", non-binary. No-one can even provide a coherent definition of what those even mean.

Service users wanted to be seen by a female member of staff. They know this and they have deliberately misrepresented it.

Waitwhat23 · 14/09/2024 08:29

Interesting post thread on Twitter from FWS - Katie Horsburgh, formally of ERCC, who during the EA was shown to be one of the most fanatical adherents of gender ideology there, has moved onto another role -

'In the merry-go-round of Scottish civil society, Katie Horsburgh has moved to a plum role as Policy and Practice officer for Children and young people at @ZTScotland'

x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1834709837629788498
.

Hedgehogdetective · 14/09/2024 05:15

Devilsmommy · 12/09/2024 12:34

Its beggars belief that some people really can't see why rape victims need a place that doesn't have a penis in the vicinity, even if it's dressed up as a woman 😡

Because trans rights trump everything else. Trans has become a shield, a protected status beyond any other group. And some people seek to exploit that especially when you can just self id

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2024 02:10

This is Wikipedia, the bolded passage (my bold( has been added today, they weren't exactly quick on the draw and it was this afternoon when it was edited to include MW's departure. This may be because most people didn't have the permissions to edit it after it was locked by genderists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mridul_Wadhwa&action=history

The review found that the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre had not protected women-only spaces, had not put survivors first, and had not followed national service standards. This was due primarily to the service not clarifying the birth sex of every staff member, and requiring survivors to request if they wanted to be seen by a cisgender staff member specifically

Cisgender people are both sexes, no? It just demonstrates that they know a "cisgender" woman is just another name for a woman.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/09/2024 01:41

And in doing that as a non specialised unaffiliated organisation it is inappropriate to say it is a rape crisis centre.

Rape Crisis England and Wales say it is a rape crisis centre. Sussex Rape Crisis Centre. On their website. I'm not wasting any more time on this nonsense.

  •   <strong><a class="break-all" href="https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/survivors-network-sussex-rape-crisis-centre/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Survivors&#039; Network (Sussex Rape Crisis Centre)</a>)</strong><strong>
</strong><strong>Website:</strong> 
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.survivorsnetwork.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.survivorsnetwork.org.uk</a>uk<strong><span class="underline">

</strong>Email address:<strong> 
<a class="break-all" href="//mailto:[email protected]" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>uk</strong></span>

<strong>Areas covered:</strong>
Counselling: Brighton only. All other services: the whole of Sussex.



      
<a class="break-all" href="https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/survivors-network-sussex-rape-crisis-centre/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">See more about Survivors&#039; Network (Sussex Rape Crisis Centre)</a>e)<strong><span class="underline"><a class="break-all" href="https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/survivors-network-sussex-rape-crisis-centre/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
</a>
</strong></span><strong>
</strong>_0.1 miles
    
IwantToRetire · 14/09/2024 00:43

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2024 21:30

Basically it says Sarah's request for single sex services isn't an unreasonable one and that someone else in the sector has identified that a failure to do so is potentially harmful.

Harms to vulnerable persons by a charity is a legal no no.

If that's the legal arguement then Survivors Network can say they weren't funded to do this.

And in which case the legal challenge should be against Brighton Council.

This comes back to the problem that because a council through is financial control can arbitrarily designate anyone whose financial bid they like to take on a service that isn't regulated by the known regulator, you cant then tell the funded service provider you must observe the regulator's standard if the funder didn't write that into the funding agreement.

This isn't because I believe it is right, but is about the financial contract between the funder and the service.

I am not sure that a court has the ability to say both the funder and the provider are in the wrong legally. But maybe the court can make some moral statement.

Unfortunately there is no one with political clout to take this up as an issue, and both Women's Aid and Rape Crisis seem to be rish averse in terms of standing up publicly for the standards they expect of their members, but seem to be shy about saying to the public and potential users, federated groups operate under these agreed standards.

IwantToRetire · 14/09/2024 00:36

there is no rape crisis service in Brighton

As I never said this it seems you've spent ages arguing over something that never happened.

As I quoted from their own web site they are funded to povide services.

And in doing that as a non specialised unaffiliated organisation it is inappropriate to say it is a rape crisis centre.

That is just their sleight of hand and something Brighton council is happy to turn a blind eye to, just as they when taking support from DV services from a specialist organisation to a general purpose housing organisation.

It would be more productive and help the awareness to the public who remain unaware of the trickery behind political funding not to collaborate with this deceit.

nauticant · 13/09/2024 22:35

There's the concept of persuasive, as opposed to binding, precedent:

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/3-509-2489

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2024 21:30

Basically it says Sarah's request for single sex services isn't an unreasonable one and that someone else in the sector has identified that a failure to do so is potentially harmful.

Harms to vulnerable persons by a charity is a legal no no.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2024 21:28

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 13/09/2024 17:44

This case has no bearing on Sarah's case in Brighton.

Happy to agree it has no direct legal bearing. But in terms of what is seen as accepted good practice surely this case clarifies some reasonable expectations? Such as that it's not acceptable to obfuscate and refuse to tell women who attend a survivor's group whether or not they might find themselves in a mixed-sex group. It clarifies that survivors should have a right to know what kind of group they are attending. Sussex were not being clear about that at all. And as you say, this was not putting service users first.

No legal precedent, that correct.

HOWEVER since English law is generally based on reasonableness and charities have certain legal obligations under their remit and the Equality Act (within exemptions exist) is all about preventing harms, then actually it's a useful thing to build a case.

The RCS report firmly states that there are duties of care to service users, who should be central. It identify numerous areas where ERCC and Wadhwa acted not in the interests of the public in line with it's charitable aims but for their own personal political agendas.

Noting here that one of the obligations of charities is to
1. Make sure your charity’s carrying out its purposes for the public benefit
You and your co-trustees must make sure the charity is carrying out the purposes for which it is set up, and no other purpose.

If you are actively causing a harm to the group you are supposed to be helping because you want to further an agenda which isn't it central aim, you potentially have an issue. Because duty of care and all that.

Charities are required to uphold the law and they are required to uphold certain standards by the Charity Commission.

I note the following:
Strategy for dealing with safeguarding vulnerable

groups including children issues in charities

This strategy document describes the Charity Commission’s role and approach in dealing with safeguarding

issues in relation to charities.

It explains how the commission:

• works with the sector and other agencies to prevent safeguarding concerns arising in the first place

• responds to allegations or reports of abuse of children and vulnerable adults within a charity

• deals with concerns about someone who is currently acting as a charity trustee, employee, volunteer

or contractor and their suitability to hold that position

And

What does the commission mean by ‘vulnerable’ and ‘safeguarding’?

A significant number of charities come into contact, work with or provide activities for vulnerable

beneficiaries. For the purpose of this document, by ‘vulnerable’ the commission is referring to children and
^young people under 18 years of age or to adults who are in receipt of a regulated activity
^
.

The commission defines safeguarding and promoting the welfare of vulnerable groups and children as:

• protecting from maltreatment

• preventing impairment of health or development

• for children - ensuring children are growing up in circumstances consistent with the provision of safe

and effective care

Protection is a part of safeguarding and promoting welfare. It refers to the activity that is undertaken to protect specific groups or children who are suffering, or are likely to suffer, significant harm. Effective protection is essential as part of wider work to safeguard and promote the welfare of vulnerable groups and children. However, all charities should aim to proactively safeguard and promote the welfare of their beneficiaries so that the need for action to protect them from harm is reduced.

I would very much suggest that a charity offering counselling services of any kind for any reason is dealing with vulnerable people and therefore has a duty of care to them. They certainly should not be acting in a way that causes harm.

The RCS report adds legitimacy to the claim that refusal to provide access to single sex services as a default (never mind upon request) is harmful and is not upholding legal requirements over duty of care with vulnerable persons.

Keep in mind that a specific request for single sex services is not denying services to others. Especially when you are offering specific services for males only and transpeople only.

This report has to be seen through the lens of legitimising the claim of harm having been done, which therefore strengthens arguments about discrimination and not acting within the law because it's not looking after and protecting a vulnerable person as required by the charity commission.

It's certainly not going to harm Sarah's case and it definitely isn't going to help the Brighton charity.

Councils can find whoever they like: but funding a charity which has not got proper oversight and isn't protecting vulnerable individuals in line with charities legal obligations is kinda problematic because councils have requirements over due diligence and oversight that there is proper accountability over spending funds.

Saying this report doesn't matter and is irrelevant is wrong.

It is effectively setting out a bunch of reasonable expectations for women that are difficult for someone else in the sector to then argue against.

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 19:41

And the rot is across Scottish civic life. From Rachael Hamilton MSP's twitter account -

'Police Scotland have said they would allow a serious sex offender to self-declare their gender. This opens the door to a grotesque situation where a male rapist can demand to be called a woman and further traumatise his victim. I raised this at #FMQs today'

There was impressive cross party working from Rachael, Pauline McNeill and Ash Regan yesterday to raise this issue at yesterday's FMQ's.

The Scottish Government and other institutions (Police Scotland, SPS for example) have actively created this situation. I've said before, it's going to take us years to reverse this bullshit.

MotherOfABoobAddict · 13/09/2024 19:22

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2024 12:27

'The review was heavily critical of Wadhwa, who self identifies as a woman but does not have a gender recognition certificate and is legally a man.
It found her be a domineering as chief executive who “who did not understand the limits on her role’s authority” and it said Wadhwa “failed to set professional standards of behaviour” within the organisation.
She was portrayed as incompetent, overseeing an organisation with systemic failures and a chaotic approach in key areas such as financial transparency, training and safeguarding for staff and clients.'

Wow, who'd have thought that hiring someone who didn't even meet the most basic criteria for the job (being a woman), let alone have any relevant qualifications or experience, could go so wrong?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:19

X post

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:19

Absolutely @ArabellaScott and that they've stayed that way, which doesn't seem to always be the case.

ArabellaScott · 13/09/2024 19:19

As seems to be the case in Scotland, unfortunately.

ArabellaScott · 13/09/2024 19:18

Should there be proper regulation and mandatory standards of all rape crisis provision. Yes. No argument there.

Assuming the standards and regs were focused on supporting survivors rather than validating men with agendas.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:16

I'm not missing the point. It's a rape crisis centre because it's providing rape crisis services. It's a shit one, yes, but it's misleading to imply, as you did in your response to @AccidentallyWesAnderson that there is no rape crisis service in Brighton. There is, it just isn't federated to RCEW. You've decided that means it isn't a rape crisis centre at all and just "some charity". That isn't true.

Should there be proper regulation and mandatory standards of all rape crisis provision. Yes. No argument there.

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 19:11

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:59

(I find it really weird that anyone would think just using a name confirms that is what they are.)

They are listed on the Rape Crisis E&W website as the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton. So "whether we like it or not" they are the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton.

Your missing the point. Listing them using their appropriated name still doesn't make them that.

The point of the signposting by Rape Crisis is that - signposting.

If you look at the page about "their" centres SN aren't on it.

What are Rape Crisis centres?
Our 38 member Rape Crisis centres provide free, specialist support and services to local women and girls who have experienced rape, child sexual abuse, sexual assault, sexual harassment or any other form of sexual violence.
https://rapecrisis.org.uk/find-a-centre/

ie there are only 38 centres that adhere the RC principles.

But - make no mistake. I think their web site is really hard to navigate, and even if you found this page you wouldn't know what the implications of it are.

Let alone trying to find the page that tells you the helpline is staffed by actual women.

I think it shows the fear in the funded sector that for example Rape Crisis cant copyright the name sp that those who are genuine Rape Crisis centres (and funders) cant get away with saying they are.

Another dismal sign that after 50+ years of setting up and providing women centre services, women are too unsure about being up front about who they are and why they exist.

Unfortunately most women's sector groups are now so isolated from and equally disregarded by women locally that I think over the years they will just disappear.

Rape Crisis centre services

Our centres provide free counselling and other services people who have experienced rape, sexual abuse, or any type of sexual violence. Find out more.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/support-and-services/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 19:02

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 19:01

And Kaukab Stewart's got a fucking cheek to make any sort of comment on this -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

(Kaukab was one of the MSP's who were pictured smirking underneath a sign which said 'decapitate terfs'. She's our Minister for Equalities btw).

FFS.

IwantToRetire · 13/09/2024 19:01

This is from the AIBU thread:

I am going to say this: I am an Asian woman with a similar background to MW. I also work in the social sector. I suspect he was able to get away with it for so long because he accused anyone who objected of being racist. Certainly on X and other places, the narrative is all "racist white feminists headed by JKR persecute innocent brown immigrant woman" This really enrages me.

Unfortunately, the social sector is very prone to polarised narratives and a sort of "oppression Olympics" for lack of a better word. MW had established himself as an object of sympathy because he was brown and "trans".

Unfortunately the culture in the funded sector is in fact very unforgiving of individuals speaking up when it seems they are going against the presumed accepted way of thinking, best practice. Let alone challenging someone who has set themselves up as the representative of an oppressed group.

In a way it is a shame that women service providers ever got swallowed up into what Blair renamed the 3rd Sector.

Hard enough is a small group / federation to keep in touch with founding principles, but when you are subsumed into a huge range of competing interests, even harder.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5164110-to-be-mortified-at-the-treatment-of-rape-victims-at-the-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

..To be mortified at the treatment of rape victims at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre? | Mumsnet

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o]] No women only spaces for 16 months. Basically...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5164110-to-be-mortified-at-the-treatment-of-rape-victims-at-the-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

Waitwhat23 · 13/09/2024 19:01

And Kaukab Stewart's got a fucking cheek to make any sort of comment on this -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

(Kaukab was one of the MSP's who were pictured smirking underneath a sign which said 'decapitate terfs'. She's our Minister for Equalities btw).

Woman with head in her arms sitting on a bed

Edinburgh rape crisis centre failed to protect women-only spaces

The centre unfairly dismissed a worker who believed victims should know the sex of staff who deal with their case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:59

(I find it really weird that anyone would think just using a name confirms that is what they are.)

They are listed on the Rape Crisis E&W website as the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton. So "whether we like it or not" they are the Rape Crisis Centre for Brighton.

frazzled1 · 13/09/2024 18:53

https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1834224324410044918

Any word yet from Scottish Green Maggie Chapman?.. Hmm

Surely Mridul Wadhwa has to go now? Report into ERCC out.
Surely Mridul Wadhwa has to go now? Report into ERCC out.