Women with internalised misogyny- victims?

I think the thing is we've all been accused of it, many times because it's used as a catch all for any woman who doesn't agree with what another woman is saying. It starts to feel like all women are like this when it happens all the time. Obviously not all women are like this, but I've been accused of having internalised misogyny three time this week just for disagreeing with people here, it's really starting to feel like you have to agree or you're worshipping the patriayat this point.

Wow… this is a thread asking for examples of a specific behaviour. People jump in reacting as if posters are saying ALL women behave this way. Mumsnet has become very weird.

But it doesn't ring at all true with me

In fact I think you saying men are more intelligent than women ( in your opinion) is rude and detrimental to women everywhere , but especially the bright ones who have to do so much more to be considered as peers with men of similar capabilities and I pity your daughters if you have them , limiting them with your less than intelligent ideas.

It rings true to me though! This has been my experience, especially on Mumsnet.

@StickItInTheFamilyAlbum - I call that “Matronizing Behaviour.” I feel that in those situations you’re either hit with the “I went to uni for a million years to tell all of my patients to lose weight, you’ll feel better” idiots, or those who don’t read the notes and diagnose a eating disorder that isn’t there.

Oh I love a generalisation especially on a Friday

The dafter the better

I had failed a stress test within five minutes because my BP dropped to 63/40 and I fell off the bike.

Sorry to read about the HF and sepsis. I hope you're getting appropriate support from elsewhere.

Re: Exercise Dodger. I once walked into a consultation carrying a collection of sports equipment as I was en route to an active weekend. During the information gathering, we chatted about my plans, and talked about the sports that I do and how often I do them.

My scan results reported that I'm sarcopenic) clinically low levels of muscle mass (related to loss of muscle when recovering from a major accident) and that I had 'athletic' levels of body fat (2nd centile for my age group). Nonetheless, the click whirr was to hand me leaflets, advise me to lose weight (I asked how I'd do that without losing muscle mass and how low a body fat level she'd recommend) and to try and take a 20 minute stroll most days 'to be more active' (during the earlier discussion, I'd said that I'm active at least 6 days a week).

NB: not an Exercise Bunny either, within the usual understanding of exercise classes.

That's really odd because in the UK at least I would say the stereotype is that in middle age men are couch potatoes and women are exercise bunnies trying to keep the weight off and stay looking young. Men are unhealhier and far more likely to have a heart attack or stroke than women in middle age. They also drink more, smoke more and eat less healthily.

There is definitely a problem of healthcare professionals not taking women's pain seriously I've just never come across health care professionals assuming women are lazy.

@BalletCat Thanks. 🙂

I was in hospital with a dangerously low blood pressure. I have heart failure and I was recovering from sepsis. The registrar saw "Middle-Aged White Woman" and equated that to "Exercise Dodger". Refused to hear that my work was actually very physical and I was struggling with having to change jobs (I bloody loved my job, but fainting like a Victorian in a too-tight corset made it bloody dangerous) and she kept telling me that I needed to "Keep pushing myself". In fact, that was her only advice. Her only plan. She didn't read the bit where I had failed a stress test within five minutes because my BP dropped to 63/40 and I fell off the bike.
I'm a fucking palliative care nurse.

Can you imagine me fainting while moving or bathing a dying patient or running around with meds? I don't live in the UK but sure as shit I complained to the authorities about her.

I don't believe all men are the enemy and I don't believe all women are saints

I am starting to think women are less intelligent than men for one reason, they blame society every time they do something 'oh it's societal pressure' and any other excuses why they can't think for themselves

But this martyrdom of staying with a man and putting up with crap is on them, parents are the best role models for children so both parents should do better

But women seem to go down the feminist line unless it comes to school mums, MIL or SIL, the ex or new partner, step mothers, work colleagues, celebrities

Call this what you want

The point on men having more power in society than women is that - all other things being equal men have more power than women not that every single man has more power - a man generally will have more access to education, more access to money, more access to spare time, more confidence to speak up etc and all the things that give power
some of it is an ordering question to a degree- i personally would focus on removing privilege and advantage that class and money bring (which would help the sex as well)

This is a fantastic post. I don't like a lot feminism because it comes across as very aggressive misandry to me and also paints all women as victims to the patriarchy. It also feels reductist that men can't do bad things just because they're arseholes, it's because they're MEN and all men are evil.

Many a time on here I have defended men when women have made hateful statements about them and been shouted down with insults like "you clearly have your lifelong subscription to the patriarchy paid up" been told I could only possibly believe what I believe because of internalised misogyny and actually been accused of being a man or a stealth MRA just because I don't think all men are predators! Its very off-putting and makes me want to stay far away from feminism because they're just nasty people in my experience.

I believe in equality for all but often when I've shown care for an issue that affects men feminists start spewing hateful comments like fuck men they have enough, more for women! Which to me is not equality. We want men to care about women and their issues or things like womens healthcare and rights will never improve, so why don't women reciprocate and care about men and their rights?

It's very unpleasant which is why I would never class myself as a feminist. My experience of feminism is fuck men we want everything for women. I haven't experienced a pleasant, welcoming feminist space that wants true equality and good things for everyone.

Irrespective of why they're saying it, it's misogynist. Misogyny includes prejudice against women as well as having different standards where men are viewed more leniently. Women are often treated more harshly than men for perceived infractions.

Sometimes that's about misogyny and sometimes it's more that they just aren't very bright and are self absorbed. They may have personally had trouble with female bullies, and lacking imagination and the ability to see beyond themselves, they assume that what happened to them is what happens to everyone.

My point is, a statement such as:

Women are bullies so I have male friends - is wrong.

All women aren't bullies. Men can also bully. Someone who thinks that all women are bullies is displaying misogynist views.

I wasn't actually drawing a distinction between misogyny and a women having internalized hatred.

I am suggesting that your assumption is that finding women's social interactions in general more difficult than men's isn't (necessarily) misogyny. Whether you call that being bitchy or use a more descriptive kid of language.

The reason they don't include themselves in that is because they are making a generalization, they know it's not everyone who is the same because they understand the difference between statements about groups and statements about individuals.

And yes, people can and do sometimes make generalizations about their own racial group, without having some kind of internalized racial hatred. IN fact I'd say it's quite common.

What do you mean stats on 3 bn women acting the same?

That's not how statistics work.

You can make generalizations about groups.

You can't, however, apply those to each individual, or each specific instance. That's a mathematically and logically incorrect way to use statistics.

For example, we can say men are more physically violent than women. The statistics are very clear on this. But it's a statement about men as a whole.

You cannot apply it to individual men or individual women.

This is very basic, to science, sociology, psychology. I don't understand why people have so much trouble understanding it. Especially when they seem to be able to understand it in some instances.

What makes you think they're women, Op?

This is an anonymous public board that anyone can use. I can say I'm whoever I like. You don't know if I'm man, woman or child.

There are a lot of men on here. Some say so; some don't.

Any women who repeats and belives misogynistic statements about other women does have internalised misogyny. I.e. "she was asking to be raped" "women are too emotional to be in charge, men are better leaders". Those are the extremes but yes it doesn't just start at the extreme level, you get the "women are bossy and men are leaders" and so on.

internalised hatred towards women is internalised misogyny.

I think the believing women thing is not really about believing every single woman, it's saying that the overwhelming majority of the time, women are telling the truth about sexual assault, so it makes sense to err on the side of belief rather than on disbelief.

Exactly. The whole believing women part of it is more that logically, if you look at it the chances of a false accusation are low n the grand scheme of things. And as a victim myself, i know the vast vast majority of women will have been or will be sexually assaulted or raped unfortunately. So i will always err on the side of belief also, rather than being dismissive. Others being dismissive is why many, like me, never reported the crimes against us.

There was really nothing in that thread that was particularly suggestive of that.

In your opinion. In my opinion, there was plenty to back up that claim. I get on better with men because they're less bitchy is obviously a mysogynist statement. I get on better with men because women all talk about each other is a mysogynist statement. I get on better with men because [insert stereotype] is mysogynist.

Otherwise a better assumption is that there is a reason based on the person's logical process or personal experiences and observations.

For disliking all women?